Law about live work

[iwire]

Why are we electricians?

To earn a good living and go home to our family each day.

If we as electricians can't work on live parts who in the world could?

Linemen for the utility.

Cutting off power in some cases would take to long and you would never get anything done.

I will pass the word to the family of the young man that died last year at the company I work for....I am sure they will feel better.

He was 24 and had a baby on the way.

I am sure it was all worth it as the work was very important...an elevator in a mall needed some work. :roll:

Brady if you are the owner operator of the business OSHA does not apply to you and you can do what you want, if you have employees and are teaching them that doing live work is 'part of the job' your stuck in the old days....times are changing.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Brady
When you work on live equipment/circuits, whether you think you are qualified or not is not the issue here.

The issue generally boils down to the real cost of working live. There are a percentage of electricians who work live and get hurt or killed. Some of them were as good as good gets.
The problem is the cost related to getting hurt or killed. Also the effect it will have on your family. It is not just you who gets hurt or killed. Especially since it is not necessary to change out a receptacle live...it also comes down to a cultural change which is in process and will accelerate in a short time.

So next time you work live, remember your loved ones and think of how much it is worth to them or for your customer.

 

[Jomaul]

I agree with Brady. As electricians we should now how to work live circuits. We should now how to do it safley. we should also know when to kill the power.After all what did we go to school for, to learn how to control electricity. We all know the dangers of electricity and what it is capable of doing. The problem comes from not taking the time to be safe, from being over confidant, It won't happen to me, I know what I'm doing. We've all heard guys say this. Those are the guys that get hurt.

 

[iwire]

I agree with Brady. As electricians we should now how to work live circuits.

We do know, or we should, and there are times where it has to be done and is allowed. But the general principle has to be shut it down.

You can certainly agree with Brady but it's not up to a vote, it has been decided for us by OSHA and get prepared to learn about NFPA 70 E.

 

[tallguy]

I agree with Brady. As electricians we should now how to work live circuits. We should now how to do it safley. we should also know when to kill the power.After all what did we go to school for, to learn how to control electricity. We all know the dangers of electricity and what it is capable of doing. The problem comes from not taking the time to be safe, from being over confidant, It won't happen to me, I know what I'm doing. We've all heard guys say this. Those are the guys that get hurt.

By virtue of saying "we should [k]now how to work live circuits" you sound no different than one of "those guys".

 

[Jomaul]

By virtue of saying "we should [k]now how to work live circuits" you sound no different than one of "those guys".

Reread my post

 

[peter d]

I will pass the word to the family of the young man that died last year at the company I work for....I am sure they will feel better.

He was 24 and had a baby on the way.

I am sure it was all worth it as the work was very important...an elevator in a mall needed some work. :roll:

Well said. That puts an important perspective on the issue.

I am often amazed at the tasks in which electricians will put themselves in grave danger.

 

[iwire]

Pete has worked with me, he knows I am not perfect and he has seen me in front of an open live panel.

That said I don't work with live circuits and I have no issues at all either shutting down or delaying the work.

It's time we stopped assuming risking our lives is worth the hourly we make.

 

[inspector23]

There were over four hundred construction related electrocutions in the US last year. That's more than one per day.

I bet not one single person who was electrocuted got up that morning and said " well, today is it. I am going to have an accident and will leave this world and all that I know. "

If they were just killing themselves, fine. Keeps only the smartest in the herd for future generations. But some of those killed were the victims of others careless disregard. That is unacceptable.

The old macho attitude of days gone by still exists. It's a ego-driven attitude that they see as demonstrating to others their "expert" status amoung the tribe. "Look here! See what I can do?! I worked it hot!! I have completed my right of passage! I are an electrician!!" It is used as a test to themselves to assure their manhood and competency.

Some people never leave high school.......

This is a profession, same as a doctor or engineer. And like doctors and engineers, there are continiuos education requirements to stay abreast of the changes. But you can lead a horse to water.......

 

[cschmid]

I agree Bob. a lot of the time we take chances for what ever reason yet when we get hurt we say that was stupid all I had to do was ..... and hind site is 20/20. There is one think I am not sure of by OHSA's rule and that is complacency, we work on de-energized stuff long enough we will no longer treat it like it is live and bang thats when an accident occurs. When we work with energized parts we treat it differently and work differently. So in my opinion we should remove the power and treat it as if it were energized. So here one of my stories; I worked with a guy named Dan we were working out at RDO potato processing. They were having some trouble with an unloading conveyor and Dan went over to work on it. Dan shut the disconnect off and locked it out. he was working on the motor gearbox assembly while a bob cat operator was scraping the ground. The Bob cat operator pinched the power cable between the bucket and frame it energized the frame and killed Dan. Dan had followed all the procedures and yet died. Because Dan did not walk all the way over to the warehouse and physically unplug the conveyor. Tell that to his pregnant wife and daughter. I remember it well and I lost a good friend that day. So even when we do what OSHA says is it enough.

 

[M. D.]

I first saw this at a seminar ,.. These guys were lucky ,.... they all suffered severe burns and one will never be tha same again, but they are alive

http://www.magnaelectric.com/content/view/39/56/

 

[M. D.]

This guy is lucky too,...

http://www.labelprinters.org/blog/labels/Arc%20Flash%20Accidents.html

 

[cschmid]

I was involved with an arc flash. I had burns to one half of my upper body (1st & 2nd degree), I was lucky. Video brings back memories..... I still work in my profession. More info than whats necessary but if it helps....

 

[iaov]

I live in California and my general foreman told me last year it is now illegal to do live work. I am having a hard time referencing this material, anyone know where I can find it, thanks.

There are old electricians and there are bold electricians, but there are no old, bold electricians. IAOV

 

[tallguy]

Reread my post

Don't want to get in a pissing match with you, so I'll just quote your post in its entirety -- in two sections:

This is you, advocating working "live":

I agree with Brady. As electricians we should now how to work live circuits. We should now how to do it safley. we should also know when to kill the power.After all what did we go to school for, to learn how to control electricity. We all know the dangers of electricity and what it is capable of doing.

This is you talking about the "other guys":

The problem comes from not taking the time to be safe, from being over confidant, It won't happen to me, I know what I'm doing. We've all heard guys say this. Those are the guys that get hurt.

Maybe I misunderstood... are you saing that you are NOT over confident? You are saying "it might happen to me", and yet you do it anyway? You are saying "I don't know what I'm doing"?

As far as I can see, the difference between you and "those guys" that get hurt is that you haven't been hurt, yet.

 

[Twoskinsoneman]

I have been in business for thirty years and never had a problem and always worked safe.

Is this to say you've never been zapped? It only takes a few milliamps and some bad luck to stop a heart.

 

[phishwi]

here's a little story about a blast that happened yesterday. i was pulling wire through a 12 by 12 box that was attached(externally) to a starter/ control cabinet.(6'x6').both doors on the control cabinet wet shut and locked up tight. this is outside at a big grain plant. well, I'm feeding the wire through the box when all of a sudden BANG. I'm not kidding, one of the doors pushed out, smoke everywhere. so i yanked the disco handle and went to get the plant foreman. Went and locked out the feed bucket, pulled the fuses, opened up the door and couldn't even find anything that looked like an arc blast just happened. turns out, due to much recent ran in the southern WI. area, moisture had built up on to of the very old starters in the cabinet. Just goes to show that you might not even make a mistake and you can get blasted. Good thing i wasn't working in the cabinet.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Here you simply will not get the job if your men will shut down there buisness.When possable i do shut things down but i know if play by the rules they might need to lay me off.Its always my own call.And i usually judge it on voltage and breaker size.I will not work anything live thats over 20 amps.Iknow the voltage is there but i think about damage.We do a lot of retrofits to lights.They simply will not go for turning off the lights.And if you bid it to be done at night your likely to be high bidder.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Here you simply will not get the job if your men will shut down there buisness.When possable i do shut things down but i know if play by the rules they might need to lay me off.Its always my own call.And i usually judge it on voltage and breaker size.I will not work anything live thats over 20 amps.Iknow the voltage is there but i think about damage.We do a lot of retrofits to lights.They simply will not go for turning off the lights.And if you bid it to be done at night your likely to be high bidder.

Sounds like:


Paid to get dead



Most of us who have been in the industry cannot say we have not worked live and have not been blasted...some worse than others.
It is pure luck, not skill, that we are still here to tell the stories.
The sad part is that since this thread been started that possibly 3 or 4 people in our industry have died on the job, and many more were injured, some by arc flash.

Jeez when will we wake up as an industry and say no more???

 

[paul]

Sounds like:


Paid to get dead



Most of us who have been in the industry cannot say we have not worked live and have not been blasted...some worse than others.
It is pure luck, not skill, that we are still here to tell the stories.
The sad part is that since this thread been started that possibly 3 or 4 people in our industry have died on the job, and many more were injured, some by arc flash.

Jeez when will we wake up as an industry and say no more???

They never ask the fitters to work on live steam pipes while changing a valve. I wonder why they feel it is acceptable for us to leave the panel hot when changing a breaker.

All it takes is some planning to do the job right. Yeah, maintenance window work will most likely apply, but it beats the hell out of someone getting hurt, killed or worse, shutting down the building unexpectedly. My thought on this has changed as the industry has been cracking down and hear more and more horror stories. I, too, like to make it home after work.