License to buy material

[Fulthrotl]

And another no. There are so many sarcastic, political jibes running around in my brain at this moment.

you aren't allowed to have political jibes. you live in florida, land of dangling chads.:lol:

and a no to the OP here, as well.

i live in a state where, on the current ballot, is a proposal removing all restrictions
on loco weed.

and the irony is, the only people against making loco weed legal are those who currently
grow it illegally.

but, if you need a quick political jibe, here's one to hold you over:

"and, after an exhaustive study, the calif. legislature has placed republicans on the
endangered species list, having only found 33 of them still in the wild. a bill was introduced
to restock them in certain areas of the state, that they might once again be viable here."

 

[peter d]

How many big industries purchase electrical products to install in their plants but don't necessarily have a "licensed" person that installs them, yet the installer is considered "qualified" to meet their safety policies? Laws concerning licensing in this kind of situation do vary from place to place, some places they may have to be licensed or at least working as apprentice under someone licensed. Other places may not require a license at all.

Good points.

There seems to be nearly unanimous agreement that requiring a license to buy material is a terrible idea. I also don't buy the idea that DIY is hurting our trade either.

 

[goldstar]

How many big industries purchase electrical products to install in their plants but don't necessarily have a "licensed" person that installs them, yet the installer is considered "qualified" to meet their safety policies? Laws concerning licensing in this kind of situation do vary from place to place, some places they may have to be licensed or at least working as apprentice under someone licensed. Other places may not require a license at all.

many plants or manufacturers require a licensed electricians only for their ability and knowledge and they can do as much maintenance work inside the plant as the company would like. However, they cannot contract electrical work with the public. They may even be able to do electrical work for additions but all of that has to be inspected, I would have magine.

 

[kwired]

many plants or manufacturers require a licensed electricians only for their ability and knowledge and they can do as much maintenance work inside the plant as the company would like. However, they cannot contract electrical work with the public. They may even be able to do electrical work for additions but all of that has to be inspected, I would have magine.

I think you will find it varies from place to place, the inspections and/or licensing.

Some industrial settings the "local" inspector may not have a clue on what is right or wrong, especially if nearly everything else he inspects is residential and commercial and the "qualified individuals" that work with it everyday whether licensed or not can run circles around him with the code and how it applies in their particular setting.

 

[iwire]

many plants or manufacturers require a licensed electricians only for their ability and knowledge and they can do as much maintenance work inside the plant as the company would like. However, they cannot contract electrical work with the public. They may even be able to do electrical work for additions but all of that has to be inspected, I would have magine.

What I find is that what you describe is the reality of how it is done but when you look up the actual written rules typically in house guys are limited to repairs of existing installations and legally they are supposed to be pulling permits and have inspections for any new work.

 

[kwired]

What I find is that what you describe is the reality of how it is done but when you look up the actual written rules typically in house guys are limited to repairs of existing installations and legally they are supposed to be pulling permits and have inspections for any new work.

Then comes the reality of a lot of "small" items get installed almost daily without ever filing for permits. Another light gets added to a work station or another receptacle, new machine gets installed, needs a new or upgraded circuit. AHJ is not free to just walk in at any time to check up on them, he must check in at the main office, possibly wear PPE or even wear things for protection of the product they make before they will let him in the plant, they may even require someone to escort him when he is there.

A new addition that is obvious from outside the plant - a permit likely is applied otherwise some places just have an inspector come in once or twice a year and they try to cover everything they can that may have happened since the last inspection. Sometimes things get installed and then removed before an inspection ever occurs, they were either intended to be temporary or was something they tried and it didn't work out.

 

[goldstar]

I went back and re-read the OP and some of the responses and I'd like to add a few things. First, we would all like to believe that "a man's home is his castle." From the standpoint of any building trade but specifically electrical, in this case, when we buy a house we'd all like to believe it was wired to the current code standard at the time and with the best possible materials. If the OP's suggested rule was in place at the time that could be close to a reality. But, how many times have we gone into a residence for repair work and found the neutrals switched and the hots spliced through or the black sent down to a switch and back to the light on the white ? I've even found a basement wired with antenna wire. So, a house being a man's castle would be a fine adage if he burnt the house to the ground after he finished living in it. The reality is that man wants to pass the house on to another buyer at hopefully a profit after doing shoddy electrical work. The same scenario could be applied to any building trade (think back to the story of The Three Little Pigs and the Big Bad Wolf). That analogy is not far off the mark.

So, in retrospect, while the OP's suggestion would probably never come to pass for any number of reasons, it wasn't that bad an idea from the standpoint of safety and better construction.

 

[kwired]

I went back and re-read the OP and some of the responses and I'd like to add a few things. First, we would all like to believe that "a man's home is his castle." From the standpoint of any building trade but specifically electrical, in this case, when we buy a house we'd all like to believe it was wired to the current code standard at the time and with the best possible materials. If the OP's suggested rule was in place at the time that could be close to a reality. But, how many times have we gone into a residence for repair work and found the neutrals switched and the hots spliced through or the black sent down to a switch and back to the light on the white ? I've even found a basement wired with antenna wire. So, a house being a man's castle would be a fine adage if he burnt the house to the ground after he finished living in it. The reality is that man wants to pass the house on to another buyer at hopefully a profit after doing shoddy electrical work. The same scenario could be applied to any building trade (think back to the story of The Three Little Pigs and the Big Bad Wolf). That analogy is not far off the mark.

So, in retrospect, while the OP's suggestion would probably never come to pass for any number of reasons, it wasn't that bad an idea from the standpoint of safety and better construction.

No matter what you think about home inspectors, they are there for finding some of those things when a sale of a property is to take place. They are not there to enforce codes or even permits just to give the buyer and seller an outside opinion of the condition of different aspects of the home, which they can then use to help them settle on a purchase price. Shoddy wiring is found, the buyer can make a lesser offer, knowing they need to do some work if they want it improved.

 

[goldstar]

No matter what you think about home inspectors, they are there for finding some of those things when a sale of a property is to take place. They are not there to enforce codes or even permits just to give the buyer and seller an outside opinion of the condition of different aspects of the home, which they can then use to help them settle on a purchase price. Shoddy wiring is found, the buyer can make a lesser offer, knowing they need to do some work if they want it improved.

I want to believe than an EC wired my house but when I moved in in 1976 I found a 15 A kitchen circuit ran down into the family room, then to the washer & drier and then up to the master bedroom. I know that the previous owner didn't do any wiring as the house was only 4 years old at the time. The EI didn't pick up on this nor did the HI. Go figure !

 

[mivey]

No matter what you think about home inspectors, they are there for finding some of those things when a sale of a property is to take place. They are not there to enforce codes or even permits just to give the buyer and seller an outside opinion of the condition of different aspects of the home, which they can then use to help them settle on a purchase price. Shoddy wiring is found, the buyer can make a lesser offer, knowing they need to do some work if they want it improved.

The HIs I have run across were less than thorough to say the least. Mostly fluff IMO.

 

[mivey]

I want to believe than an EC wired my house but when I moved in in 1976 I found a 15 A kitchen circuit ran down into the family room, then to the washer & drier and then up to the master bedroom. I know that the previous owner didn't do any wiring as the house was only 4 years old at the time. The EI didn't pick up on this nor did the HI. Go figure !

Not exactly what you would call a commissioning type inspection. They seem to focus on a few hot-button issues and not really on much below the surface. An EI you might could see, limited govn't resources and what-not but I have been dissappointed in the HI work I have seen. I guess they are like contractors: hard to find a really good one.

 

[hbiss]

Good point. This is not something that I would expect a home inspector to pick up on. A new buyer would be lulled into a false sense of security thinking they have no problems.

If this were truly done by an EC, if the electrical inspector knows the EC he won't get out the fine tooth comb like he would with someone he has never seen before. He just hasn't got the time to go over everything so in effect the EC is on his honor to do things properly. Most do, but of course there will be a few who will use it to get away with things.

-Hal

 

[kwired]

And we can run into similar with structural, plumbing, hvac, etc. HI's can vary just as much as contractors when it comes to how well they do their job.

A HI should give you some general idea though if you have fairly safe structure, wiring, etc. but don't expect them to find every single flaw in the home. Kind of like having a mechanic inspect a used car and give you advice on how mechanically sound the car is. He will not really know just how good it is without some extensive testing but will be able to observe some things that could raise red flags at times.

You also may never know what a contractor or inspector let go that was not up to code and ended up getting covered.

 

[brantmacga]

True......I was at a wholesale house where I have an account and tried to buy a Gastite fitting. Couldn't do it!

Meanwhile, City Electrical Supply has giant signs outside their locations that say "We Sell To The Public"......

I'm against any restrictions on buying materials, I'd just rather they stay at Home Depot instead of wasting everyone's time at the supply house. They need to be pulling my orders instead


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Electric-Light]

Meanwhile, City Electrical Supply has giant signs outside their locations that say "We Sell To The Public"......

I'm against any restrictions on buying materials, I'd just rather they stay at Home Depot instead of wasting everyone's time at the supply house. They need to be pulling my orders instead

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Why would it be any different from auto parts or office supply stores? Both have prominent retail presence even though their cash cow is delivery account customers. Supply houses are business too and they too have payroll and rent to pay.

I know people tend to evaluate their value as a customer by the dollar amount spent, but that's not really how things work. It maybe hard to believe, but to the gas station near a bus stop, riders who make a quick run inside before their bus shows up are likely more valuable customers than people who fill up $75 of fuel and drive off. So to support a local supply house and you feel guilty about buying wires and such at Home Depot, buy some $5 high margin items or bottled waters and such if they have them. Items with razor thin margins are there because people expect to have them, but they don't mind it if you don't buy those.

Accounts with move large volume get a better deal. Retail counter sales help the supply house get a better deal with their supplier since it increases their purchase volume.

 

[hbiss]

We're going around in circles here. About 8 pages back I already said:

"The simple truth is that manufacturers and distributors found out that they can make lots more money selling to anybody with the cash or a credit card than restricting sales to those in the trade or business."

So it's all about the money, not peoples livelihood or the public's safety.

-Hal

 

[iwire]

We're going around in circles here. About 8 pages back I already said:

"The simple truth is that manufacturers and distributors found out that they can make lots more money selling to anybody with the cash or a credit card than restricting sales to those in the trade or business."

So it's all about the money, not peoples livelihood or the public's safety.

-Hal

And IMO it has nothing to do with sales it has to do with having a right to work on my own home

As far as future owners of my home buyer be aware. Just like purchasing any used item.

 

[Electric-Light]

So it's all about the money, not peoples livelihood or the public's safety.

-Hal

I am not sure who's livelihood you mean. You surely don't expect them to compromise their livelihood to protect yours. The safety argument should come from someone who's a degree or two isolated from having direct competitive concerns.

 

[hbiss]

I am not sure who's livelihood you mean. You surely don't expect them to compromise their livelihood to protect yours.

Livelihood= yours as in choosing to be an EC.

Manufacturers and distributors only care about their profits, not that you could be losing business or your job because of their policies. Nor do they care about some hack putting himself or his family in danger.

This is just typical of the social climate in this country where nobody takes responsibility for anything.

-Hal

 

[jim dungar]

This isn't a totally new issue.

Some 50 years ago, almost every licensed electrical contractor had a store front that sold parts to walk-in DIY customers. Most of the time the sale was made by one of the office staff, many of which were not qualified to answer questions or provide advice (the knowledgeable staff was out working on jobs). The one I used the most was Kafura Electric, because I could ride my bike there.