Liens and legal issues

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Fulthrotl said:
now, in the case of the OP, the bond is probably only $3k.

claim it. it's $3k, and doesn't need any attorney costs.
it also hangs the asss hats license.

he will contact you and offer to pay to release the claim.
he has to pay you all of the money, not just $3k. if he
defaults, you get the $3k from his bonding company,
and if that happens, he has to repay the bonding company,
who will most likely dump him.

do it tomorrow morning. i have had to do it once. i filed,
and the next morning, the notice of claim went out.
half an hour later, the guy called to pay up.
wanted to know when the claim would be released.

i said after the check cleared. i got all of it but $500,
and it wasn't worth bothering about. i called the bonding
rep, told him, and said let's park this. done deal. took two
days.

he has a new bonding company now. they dropped him.
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Not sure what you mean by a bond. I don't even know if he had to put up a performance bond to do this work.
 
Fulthrotl said:
now, in the case of the OP, the bond is probably only $3k.
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Good point. Going after a bond is another way. However not sure what the bond requirements are in goldstar land. If there is a bond, it also depends on how it works there. I know in WA state, a license standing isnt tied to a bond claim. If that is the case like it appears to be where you are, then I could see that being very effective.
 
goldstar said:
In this particular case there was no "official" written contract. However, all the work was broken down into several different jobs, backed up by individual invoices (16 totaling $23,500.00) along with a periodic journal indicating what work I did and when I did it. The invoices and journal combined make up what would be considered an "implied" contract. If I had to go before a judge I can't imagine him not seeing it my way. The only thing the GC could say is that he didn't authorize me to do the work. But that won't hold water because he gave me a check for the balance of $15500.00 which ended up bouncing.
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I also had no contract, but I do have all the text messages and emails which lay it all out.

I am only out $3800 for mine. For me its really more a matter of principle.
 
electrofelon said:
I also had no contract, but I do have all the text messages and emails which lay it all out.

I am only out $3800 for mine. For me its really more a matter of principle.
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is there anyway to save your text messages or email them to your email account so that you have a written record?
 
electrofelon said:
Yeah there's an app for that. I dont remember what the name of it was but it downloaded and saved t hem to PDF. Google "download texts app" or "text to pdf app" or something and I'm sure you will pull it up or something similar.
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Thanks
 
goldstar said:
On January 11th the GC issued me a check for $15.5K for the balance with the understanding that I would hold the check until the following week when he got paid from the garage owners. Well, next week - led to next week - led to next week until finally it was almost 3 months. I consulted my attorney who advised me to deposit the check.

Within 2 days the check came back NSF. At that point I brought all my documentation to my attorney. He then advised me that bouncing a check for that amount is fraud and we should go after the GC on criminal charges. A day later he came back to me and advised me that he was not able to file criminal charges because that had to be done within 45 days of the date the check was issued.
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I can't help wondering if this guy knew exactly what he was doing or was he a dumb jerk that just got lucky.

There is a lot of information available about people/companies. Just a google search of a company/person name will often turn up complaints about them. See if their corporation has been in business for years or if they change names more often than their socks. You may have to pay few bucks but you can do a background check on the person you are having trouble collecting from.

I'm surprised a lawyer wouldn't know the deadline to file criminal charges.

Who knows this guy may not even be the crook it may be the tire company that didn't pay him and he really can't cover the check. If so you are trying to rattle the wrong cage.

I do wish you a lot of luck in collecting.
 
goldstar said:
On January 11th the GC issued me a check for $15.5K for the balance with the understanding that I would hold the check until the following week when he got paid from the garage owners. Well, next week - led to next week - led to next week until finally it was almost 3 months. I consulted my attorney who advised me to deposit the check.
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Holding the check until the following week per the GC's request I can understand somewhat. Why was it processed 3 months later and not the next week is what is confusing me. Or did they keep asking you to hold on to it for a little longer?
 
If you have proof that he has continued to promise to pay you such as emails texts or messages, you may be able to get charges filed on him for continuing to defraud or something along those lines.

Early on I had several incidents with owners that refused to pay for change orders. I was young and naive and did a lot of that on a handshake and a word. After I didn't get paid the second time, I made sure that all change orders were paid 100% upfront or they did not get done. Also the next phase for job was never started until the previous phase was paid for in full. I've seen a few sizable ECs go bankrupt due to one commercial job going bust. as a sole proprietor or one-man shop, you can't afford to take 5 digit losses.
 
goldstar said:
I’m posting this as a point of information so that in the event any of you get yourselves into a situation like I have you’ll know what to do. There’s an unspoken rule that states ANY TIME you get to do electrical work on a commercial job – make sure you have a well written and signed contract.
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Totally agree. I just wouldn't limit it to commercial. The other point I would add is get signed variation orders for any changes in the scope of supply.
 
go after his bond
not to collect but so he has trouble obtaining one for future work

contact his insurer
they typically don't like deadbeats

contact any associated licensing boards

you have proof of a contract
the bogus check

you learned a couple of things
have a contract with change orders
do not wait (the check is in the mail bs)
do not get too far behind, do progress billing if possible

you likely are not the first this guy burned
 
goldstar said:
Not sure what you mean by a bond. I don't even know if he had to put up a performance bond to do this work.
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license bond. i googled it, but i don't know what part of the state
your work was in.

get the gc's license number, and see who bonded him. it'll be
for at least $3k. file a claim with the bonding company.

they will contact both of you by email most likely. then you
can release the claim when he pays in full.

this is NOT a lien. you are filing a claim against his insurance
bond. and unless you are paid ALL the money you are owed,
you claim the $3k, and file a small claims court for the rest.

if his bonding company pays that claim, they will have his
license suspended till he makes it right.

he can't pull permits. dead in the water.
 
I would not and have not paid attorneys to file a lien, it is a very simple process

In many states one can not only place a lien against the property the work was done in, one can place the SAME lien against every property the original property owner owns.

This is done via contact with the court clerk, after the initial lien in registered .

The CC can issue you certified copies, which you can then place against other properties owned by the originating entity

One finds this out @ the registry of deeds.

Further, and this is the REAL kicker, many states have a complaint form for life safety hazards associated with properties that have public access. rentals and commercial structures apply

Entering formal complaints weakens the owners ability to fiscally keep up, resulting in foreclosures (especially if they're slums) sooner than later

~RJ~
 
In New Jersey for job this size you are required by law to have a contract so technically now the Board could come after you for not having one. Also did the job pass it's final inspection? Legally you cannot get your last payment until it has been it has passed and been signed off.
 
infinity said:
In New Jersey for job this size you are required by law to have a contract so technically now the Board could come after you for not having one. Also did the job pass it's final inspection? Legally you cannot get your last payment until it has been it has passed and been signed off.
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I've never seen anything that puts a max or min on this final payment. I once had a kitchen remodel done by a contractor who requested final payment before the final inspection. I think he was in a cash crunch. Because he had done a good job on our bathroom and it was a good result, I went ahead with it. Everything was fine, but I'd hesitate to do this with a first-time contractor.
 
gadfly56 said:
I've never seen anything that puts a max or min on this final payment. I once had a kitchen remodel done by a contractor who requested final payment before the final inspection. I think he was in a cash crunch. Because he had done a good job on our bathroom and it was a good result, I went ahead with it. Everything was fine, but I'd hesitate to do this with a first-time contractor.
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You're correct, but if there is not agreed upon contractual final payment then it could just be the balance owed in this case 15.5K. Back in the day we would specify in the contract that the permit fees are the final payment since they're typically unknown when the contract is signed and maybe only a few hundred dollars. I only mention it because technically you can't even ask for without the final inspection.
 
Verbal contracts are just as enforceable as written ones in most cases. The guy either can't or won't pay. Maybe a combination of both.

It happens a lot in the construction business. Learn from it.

Some GCs are scam artists, others are just horrible at being a GC. A few are pretty good at it. Biggest problem is a lot of the smaller guys are so poorly capitalized they are screwed before they even start and don't realize how deep in the hole they are.
 
Just to be clear, I know I'm at a disadvantage by not having a well written and signed contract. However, that doesn't necessarily knock me out of the box. I have 16 well written invoices (that have been presented to the GC in January) that show, in detail, the work I performed. In addition, he's already paid me $8K on the total job ($23.5K). My accounting software shows how the $8K was applied to the invoices. I have all this printed out and it was presented to my attorney. In addition I made a transcript of all the text messages between the GC and myself in the event we have to go to small claims court. All of this put together makes for a pretty decent "implied" contract. If nothing else it shows that we had a good working relationship.

Unfortunately this particular project didn't lend itself to having a contract. There were never any drawings or specs to bid on. It started out as installing a few receptacles in a waiting area and wiring a 3 ton AC unit. I thought I was going to be in and out within a week. Then, within a few weeks there were 6 new auto lifts installed (all requiring a 30A, 240V circuit instead of the existing 20A circuits that were existing and in place). Then a 60A, 3 phase air compressor showed up that had to be wired, then there was lighting in the bays, then additional receptacles, outdoor lighting, heating units, etc.

IMHO, either someone knew exactly what was needed and intended to defraud me from the outset or they were legitimately dumb and had no idea what was involved (electrically speaking). BTW, I checked with the AC guy and he was paid in full. All the jobs were completed, inspected and passed.

I also asked my attorney if the lien could collect interest monthly if not paid on time. His answer was no because it would have to be specifically written into a contract in order for that to happen.
 
Similar Situation

Similar Situation

I am in the middle of a very similar situation Myself. We were recommended to this Client, by a Realtor we both knew. He was doing a major remodel & addition, and needed an Electrician.
He was in the process of looking for a Framing Crew, so we just went in & demo'd all of the old wiring. Pulled the Permit, Relocated the Panel, and got temp power ready for Construction. We only had some shop/truck supplies involved & a couple of days labor... so I told him I'd add it to the Rough In draw, and asked him to let me know when He thought they were about a week away from needing Us back.
We were covered up with work at the time, so I really didn't give it much thought, but after some time I did realize it had been quite a while & I hadn't heard anything. So I call Him up, and looking back, He did act a little "off" but it wasn't clear why. He even told me they "should be ready for Us in a week or so." After another week or so, I was working nearby, so I dropped by the job site. Found the drywall was just being finished.:blink: When I called Him, He apologized over & over, said He didn't know how to tell me, and that to get a Contractor to do the framing, he had to let him bring in all of his people to do the entire project. Told him it was weird, but just business to Me. I'd be sending Him an Invoice for everything we had invested & done to date. No Problem was His reply. (From that point on, I communicated with him via text only.) After many promises to pay, more apologies etc. I finally figured that this was not going to break my way without some legal actions. So after a quick call to my Attorney, I now have a Lien applied & recorded on this Property, as well as an upcoming Small Claims court date ! This house is on the Market for $699,900 Since He was served his copies of the Lien & Court date, I haven't heard anything. It was an Ordeal, but I'm kinda glad I now know everything that's involved. I will post the outcome, after it's resolved.
 
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