Liens and legal issues

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Megawatt* said:
He was doing a major remodel & addition, and needed an Electrician.
He was in the process of looking for a Framing Crew, so we just went in & demo'd all of the old wiring. Pulled the permit, Relocated the Panel, and got temp power ready for Construction.
He apologized over & over, said He didn't know how to tell me, and that to get a Contractor to do the framing, he had to let him bring in all of his people to do the entire project.
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I would be checking to see if these guys ever got the correct building permit to do the remodeling/addition ( with an electrician of record).

I hate to say this but once power is on a lot of these guys think they are in the clear. They don't get the Temp in Temp power.
 
Megawatt* said:
I am in the middle of a very similar situation Myself. We were recommended to this Client, by a Realtor we both knew. He was doing a major remodel & addition, and needed an Electrician.
He was in the process of looking for a Framing Crew, so we just went in & demo'd all of the old wiring. Pulled the Permit, Relocated the Panel, and got temp power ready for Construction. We only had some shop/truck supplies involved & a couple of days labor... so I told him I'd add it to the Rough In draw, and asked him to let me know when He thought they were about a week away from needing Us back.
We were covered up with work at the time, so I really didn't give it much thought, but after some time I did realize it had been quite a while & I hadn't heard anything. So I call Him up, and looking back, He did act a little "off" but it wasn't clear why. He even told me they "should be ready for Us in a week or so." After another week or so, I was working nearby, so I dropped by the job site. Found the drywall was just being finished.:blink: When I called Him, He apologized over & over, said He didn't know how to tell me, and that to get a Contractor to do the framing, he had to let him bring in all of his people to do the entire project. Told him it was weird, but just business to Me. I'd be sending Him an Invoice for everything we had invested & done to date. No Problem was His reply. (From that point on, I communicated with him via text only.) After many promises to pay, more apologies etc. I finally figured that this was not going to break my way without some legal actions. So after a quick call to my Attorney, I now have a Lien applied & recorded on this Property, as well as an upcoming Small Claims court date ! This house is on the Market for $699,900 Since He was served his copies of the Lien & Court date, I haven't heard anything. It was an Ordeal, but I'm kinda glad I now know everything that's involved. I will post the outcome, after it's resolved.
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I don't know if other states have similar requirements, but here in NJ before you lien a residential property you must first file a notice of intent to lien. If you don't do that and proceed with the lien, the gods of the legal system will chain you to a rock to let eagles rip out your liver, whereupon it will grow back overnight to be ripped out again the following day.
 
gadfly56 said:
I don't know if other states have similar requirements, but here in NJ before you lien a residential property you must first file a notice of intent to lien. If you don't do that and proceed with the lien, the gods of the legal system will chain you to a rock to let eagles rip out your liver, whereupon it will grow back overnight to be ripped out again the following day.
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I just can't get over how all these laws are designed to protect the slime balls and very few are designed to protect us tradesmen from these predators.
 
goldstar said:
I just can't get over how all these laws are designed to protect the slime balls and very few are designed to protect us tradesmen from these predators.
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The general public has convinced the lawmakers that the tradesmen are the slime balls. Sure some of them are, but there probably is many more in the general public.
 
goldstar said:
I just can't get over how all these laws are designed to protect the slime balls and very few are designed to protect us tradesmen from these predators.
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kwired said:
The general public has convinced the lawmakers that the tradesmen are the slime balls. Sure some of them are, but there probably is many more in the general public.
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I think the lien laws are designed to protect the property owners.

If it was to easy to file a lien on a property there would be all sorts of liens filed for little or no reason. I think this has happened in the past with liens filed that owners were not even aware of.

Like most laws the slime balls learn to use them to their advantage.

It's really hard to protect yourself from crooks that know the system.
 
Lien

Lien

I did follow Our State's regulations, and notified ( by Registered Mail ) my " Intent to Lien " before doing anything. It was only after that, that I understood, this was not going to be an easy task.
That's when I sought legal advice, and went nuclear. My Attorney suggested the Lien as the first course of action, but to also start a Small Claims action against the GC. After winning that, He said He could get involved & pretty much do what ever was necessary to collect the debt. Up to forcing a sale of the Property.
 
Been maybe around 15 years ago, the only time I ever filed a lien on a property. I did some work and never got paid for it for a dairy farm. I had heard that the owner was likely going to file bankruptcy, and went to the county clerk and filed the lien - don't recall having to jump through hardly any hoops to do so.

Eventually I received documents from the bankruptcy court since I was a creditor. Had I not filed the lien I probably get completely left out - but I never got a dime anyway. Since I was a creditor in the case I got all the information on the case. Basically the attorneys and the banks got whatever assets were available and everyone else was out of luck - was notified my lien was cancelled.:blink:
 
growler said:
I think the lien laws are designed to protect the property owners.

If it was to easy to file a lien on a property there would be all sorts of liens filed for little or no reason. I think this has happened in the past with liens filed that owners were not even aware of.

Like most laws the slime balls learn to use them to their advantage.

It's really hard to protect yourself from crooks that know the system.
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Thanks for those words of wisdom :p. Let's hope that's not the case. If I could show you the documentation I have for this project, including a complete transcript of text messages that I have between myself and the GC you would easily conclude that this person was out to cheat me from the beginning.

Until today my last communication from him was on 3/22/18 (no text - no phone call). Low and behold he sent me a text today indicating that he was sorry for the long delay, he got his attorney's involved with the owners and believes he now has their attention. In addition he assured me that he has not "skipped town" and he intends to pay me what he owes me.

I called my attorney and asked whether I should respond. He said text him back and tell him to send a certified check immediately, which I did.

The saga continues.............:weeping:
 
goldstar said:
Thanks for those words of wisdom :p. Let's hope that's not the case. If I could show you the documentation I have for this project, including a complete transcript of text messages that I have between myself and the GC you would easily conclude that this person was out to cheat me from the beginning.

Until today my last communication from him was on 3/22/18 (no text - no phone call). Low and behold he sent me a text today indicating that he was sorry for the long delay, he got his attorney's involved with the owners and believes he now has their attention. In addition he assured me that he has not "skipped town" and he intends to pay me what he owes me.

I called my attorney and asked whether I should respond. He said text him back and tell him to send a certified check immediately, which I did.

The saga continues.............:weeping:
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And I "intend" to win the PowerBall lottery. Let's see which happens first...:D
 
Additional collection methods you may want to explore.

Additional collection methods you may want to explore.

Ask your attorney about possible foreclosure on the lien. Before you do that, you may also discover if the buildings owner has a loan against the property. If he does, most banks require a property be kept un-encumbered and if there is a lien on it, the loan could be called in 100% due on demand. That will get the owner's attention pronto and if he paid the contractor, they will be having quite a conversation about getting you paid off 100% so a satisfaction of lien can be generated. You may also enlist the contractor's bank to help get enough funds deposited to cover the check should you present it for payment a second time. A business associate of mine once made a small deposit into the account of the check writer to bring the balance up to cover the amount of the check. That way he got 95% of what was owed which was a very inexpensive collection fee. Keep after the contractor or you will lose out. Guys like this give all the other contractors a bad name.
 
Thanks. I'll keep all of that in mind but I'm leaving this up to my lawyer for the most part

I had a text conversation with the GC yesterday who informed me that he is taking the tire center owners to court. They made him an offer to "close out" the job for what amounted to be lunch money by comparison to what the whole job was worth. He also assured me AGAIN that I will be paid and that he was sorry for this delay. While I'm compassionate for him and his situation - IT'S NOT MY PROBLEM !!! But, he made it my problem so I have to deal with it. I'll get paid eventually. By the time all is said and done it will have cost somewhere between $1K and $2K to collect $15.5 K (if I'm lucky).
 
goldstar said:
Thanks. I'll keep all of that in mind but I'm leaving this up to my lawyer for the most part

I had a text conversation with the GC yesterday who informed me that he is taking the tire center owners to court. They made him an offer to "close out" the job for what amounted to be lunch money by comparison to what the whole job was worth. He also assured me AGAIN that I will be paid and that he was sorry for this delay. While I'm compassionate for him and his situation - IT'S NOT MY PROBLEM !!! But, he made it my problem so I have to deal with it. I'll get paid eventually. By the time all is said and done it will have cost somewhere between $1K and $2K to collect $15.5 K (if I'm lucky).
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I remember discussion on that earlier - at least you sort of now know that GC wasn't necessarily intentionally trying to rake you over the coals. But either way you and him are both likely taking losses on that project. This don't necessarily mean this GC is a bad guy to work for in the future either, you just both (and maybe even other subs) got stuck by a bad client.
 
kwired said:
I remember discussion on that earlier - at least you sort of now know that GC wasn't necessarily intentionally trying to rake you over the coals. But either way you and him are both likely taking losses on that project. This don't necessarily mean this GC is a bad guy to work for in the future either, you just both (and maybe even other subs) got stuck by a bad client.
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That’s exactly the case. I don’t think he’s a bad person, I think he got screwed by the repair garage and, in turn, he’s screwing me. Either way, it’s not my problem but he made it mine !!!
 
goldstar said:
That’s exactly the case. I don’t think he’s a bad person, I think he got screwed by the repair garage and, in turn, he’s screwing me. Either way, it’s not my problem but he made it mine !!!
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Is the tire center open and operating?
 
goldstar said:
Yes it is, but every time I pass there it doesn’t look crowded. But it is operating.
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Just a thought, but maybe you can work out with the owners free tire changes or something for life or until the debt is paid off. In other words, barter.

... or pray for a small meteorite to obliterate the building, whatever works for you
 
JFletcher said:
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Early on I had several incidents with owners that refused to pay for change orders. I was young and naive and did a lot of that on a handshake and a word. After I didn't get paid the second time, I made sure that all change orders were paid 100% upfront or they did not get done. Also the next phase for job was never started until the previous phase was paid for in full...
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Thats solid advice right there.
Its really hard to halt a GC's schedule but if it needs to be done.
 
tortuga said:
Thats solid advice right there.
Its really hard to halt a GC's schedule but if it needs to be done.
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Thanks. When we were doing v/d/v for hotels, we were always employed by the owner and not the general contractor. The only project we had a problem on was where the GC was seriously behind and pushing his guys 7 days a week 12 hours a day.

long story short as possible, GC was trying to hang insulation and drywall on the 5th floor before we even had our cable in. he told me point-blank, and I quote, "I don't give a **** about you, you are 0.03 percent of the job!"

My reply was a very off-hand remark to the effect of "try to get your coo (certificate of occupancy) without working telephones in each room...excuse me, I need to call the inspector...."

I once had to threaten to cut every piece of wire out of the building that I installed to get paid. Not proud about that, probably wasn't ethical or legal, but it worked.
 
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