Light switch installed at bath tub

[76nemo]

Next thing you know, he'll fall down a well and not even have a dog to bark for help.

GF protection has an alarm for that

 

[stickboy1375]

Next thing you know, he'll fall down a well and not even have a dog to bark for help.

I was thinking Timmy needed to go live in a bubble... :grin:

 

[The Iceman]

So what was the reason?

I know some people don't think that you can get shocked by a general-use snap switch with wet hands. I believe that the man that called me out to look at his garbage disposal switch because it was shocking him when using it with wet hands wasn't making it up. And I don't think he was nuts. I replaced the switch, check the wiring, and told him not to use it with wet hands. He hasn't had anymore problems with it.

 

[cowboyjwc]

John, are saying that only women will get shocked, or only women do dishes?


I do my own dishes, and have never been shocked from the disposal switch when my hands are wet.

You know, I'll take that one, that was kind of a sexist remark.:grin:

That's what I meant and I'm pretty sure that's what Marc meant too.

Next thing you know, he'll fall down a well and not even have a dog to bark for help.

:grin: I was thinking the same thing....Lassie, Timmy's in the bathtub, go get help. Bark Bark.

 

[cowboyjwc]

I know this will just start another fight, but everyone is up in arms about TR receptecales and AFCI breakers which were put in the code to save lives and prevent injury, but the code doesn't say that you can't put a switch next to a tub and many think it's a bad idea because it could cause injury or death.

 

[haskindm]

404.9(B) requires that switches be "grounded" (connected to a grounding conductor). As has been said before, things that are properly GROUNDED do not need GFCI protection. That is why (USUALLY) GFCI is only required for RECEPTACLES (there are exceptions). We have no control over what is plugged into receptacles or if the equipment plugged into the receptacle will be properly grounded so GFCI is required as the SECOND BEST PROTECTION. If a switch is properly grounded the yoke cannot become energized. There would be a fault and the low impedance ground fault return path would cause the circuit breaker to open. On properly grounded equipment GFCI offers little additional protection. Proper grounding trumps GFCI protection every time.

 

[electricmanscott]

Timmy sucks.

 

[infinity]

I have always been a little leary of switches within reach of a shower or tub.

I catch myself being conscious of only touching the plastic and not the plate screw when I switch the one that is within reach of my shower.

I agree that under normal circumstances it should not be a big deal but what if the switch failed and the yoke became hot?
Touching the plate screw would be a surprise.

Now a days switches have a ground lead and as long as I knew the yoke was grounded I would feel safe enough.

Is a tub even grounded? If not how would you get a shock?

 

[charlie b]

Is a tub even grounded? If not how would you get a shock?

If the pipes are metal, then water in contact with the metal drain gives you a path to planet Earth. Even if the house's pipes are plastic, water draining through them might flow into metal pipes owned by the water utility. The ground rod and the EGC take it the rest of the way back to the service panel.

 

[76nemo]

Timmy sucks.

I don't care who you are, THAT is funny right there.

ROTFLMAO

Little Timmy's always causing trouble

 

[76nemo]

Forum sticker

Forum sticker

Not too long ago, most everyone voted for a sticker to show they were members of Holt's NEC Forum. Now I have a new vote,............


TIMMY SUCKS

:wink: :smile:

 

[ELA]

Is a tub even grounded? If not how would you get a shock?

I am guessing that I am not the only electrical person who has ever been shocked by touching only the hot wire and having current travel to ground via stray (non intentional ground) paths.

 

[76nemo]

I am guessing that I am not the only electrical person who has ever been shocked by touching only the hot wire and having current travel to ground via stray (non intentional ground) paths.

That's why I emphasize on proper gloves and footwear.

 

[K8MHZ]

If the pipes are metal, then water in contact with the metal drain gives you a path to planet Earth. Even if the house's pipes are plastic, water draining through them might flow into metal pipes owned by the water utility.

I know this is *really* picky, but water does not conduct electricity. Ionic molecules dissolved in water do. Like NaCl for instance. So if you don't sweat and shower in distilled water you are safe. Just don't wear black rubber shoes in the shower because rubber colored with carbon *does* conduct electricity.

 

[76nemo]

I know this is *really* picky, but water does not conduct electricity. Ionic molecules dissolved in water do. Like NaCl for instance. So if you don't sweat and shower in distilled water you are safe. Just don't wear black rubber shoes in the shower because rubber colored with carbon *does* conduct electricity.

How many people do you know that have de-minerized/de-ionized water to the bathing area that you know of?

 

[stickboy1375]

How many people do you know that have de-minerized/de-ionized water to the bathing area that you know of?

Does a water softener count? :grin:

 

[mivey]

old work

old work

404.9(B) requires that switches be "grounded" (connected to a grounding conductor)....Proper grounding trumps GFCI protection every time.

In my post, I was not referring to newer installations that have a ground. It appears this exception would apply to old work where there is no grounding conductor. The NEC allows a non-conducting plate OR GFCI solution. I was just thinking that the non-conducting plate does not solve the problem with the plate screws/yoke but a GFCI solution would.

 

[charlie b]

I know this is *really* picky, but water does not conduct electricity. Ionic molecules dissolved in water do.

That is like saying that copper wires do not conduct electricity, but instead it is the free electrons surrounding the nuclei of copper atoms that conduct electricity. I will continue to say that water is a conductor, thank you.

 

[charlie b]

I know some people don't think that you can get shocked by a general-use snap switch with wet hands.

I know that you can. I got zapped a year or so ago, when I attempted (with wet hands) to turn on a light that was plugged into a countertop receptacle. I even posted a question about it at the time, wondering whether the electrician who recently installed a new GFCI for that circuit had done something wrong (else why did I feel the shock, and why did the GFCI not trip).

That does not change my view of this situation. If something breaks, you are outside the scope of the NEC. What I mean is that the purpose of the NEC is to establish a safe electrical system. The NEC does not include contingency rules that require the system to remain safe when something fails. It presumes that if a device fails, it will be repaired or replaced. I replaced the light fixture, and you replaced the light switch. Now both are safe again. Neither was unsafe until it had experienced in internal failure.

 

[mivey]

That is like saying that copper wires do not conduct electricity, but instead it is the free electrons surrounding the nuclei of copper atoms that conduct electricity. I will continue to say that water is a conductor, thank you.

Perhaps a demonstration would change his mind...I can think of several..I think he would eventually agree. :grin: