Lighting switch installed behind a door.

[roger]

I'm just saying that in deciding what is "near", the AHJ may reasonably use a distance measure based on a person reaching for the switch. In which case a switch behind a door is "farther" away from the entrance than if the door swing were reversed.

On the other hand, it is reasonable to argue that the text is 230.70(A)(1) is unenforceable as the term "near" is vague, as per your reference to the NEC Style Manual.

Cheers, Wayne

I agree and if the AHJ has made a formal amendment to define a distance or how to measure it I can go with that. In the location I mentioned above where the inspectors would call out the offender that caused the violation the AHJ also defined 230.70(A)(1) as twice the height of the service gear, meaning if the gear was 6' tall they allowed 12' of unfused service entrance conductors in the room.
(I have no idea where that came from though)

The problem with the OP's handling of the situation without a formal AHJ amendment is a problem.

 

[Ohm2]

If I may: is the door an obstacle?

 

[winnie]

If I may: is the door an obstacle?

No, it's ajar.

 

[ggunn]

Once more we have shown that we are capable of arguing ad infinitum about virtually anything, however trivial.

 

[ActionDave]

The only reason that "near" was added to the code rule was because in the previous codes, the code would have permitted you to install almost all of the light switches for a dwelling at a single location.

As it should. It's a design issue where to place a switch. And as we all know the NEC claims it is not a design manual.

 

[Little Bill]

As it should. It's a design issue where to place a switch. And as we all know the NEC claims it is not a design manual.

Key word = "claims"!

 

[ActionDave]

I did a custom home where the owner wanted some of the switches for the living room and outside lights in a closet next to the entry because he didn't want to see them on the wall. I said that it was fine. The contractor and everybody in the room freaked out, but the owner got his way.

 

[jim dungar]

As it should. It's a design issue where to place a switch. And as we all know the NEC claims it is not a design manual.

It claims to not be a design specifications or instruction manual for untrained persons. So once you are trained/licensed, it can tell you what to do?

 

[Ohm2]

No, it's ajar.

If I’m playing devils advocate…A door can be an obstacle. Could we not say nec 404.8A applies when the door is blocking the switch? The switch not readily accessible.

 

[Fred B]

If I’m playing devils advocate…A door can be an obstacle. Could we not say nec 404.8A applies when the door is blocking the switch? The switch not readily accessible.

Also been in a situation where the GC put in the wrong door swing and switch become behind a door. Now try to find the switch after door is closed in the dark. I believe the situation of finding a switch in the dark is rationale for the requirement of a switch at each entry into the room and having 3 and 4 way switches.

 

[electrofelon]

Back in the mid 2000's I had an electrical inspector who would love to tell stories about inspections he had done. One was how some unhappy inspectee gave him a Romanian curse and it was supposedly causing him bad luck. But the relevant one to this conversation was he said he went to this house, and the room switch was on the opposed wall from the entry door. He says to the inspectee:

"you put the switch too high"
"what do you mean that looks like a normal height"
"no you are supposed to put the switch a foot of the floor"
"a foot??? What do you mean, why?
"so that when you walk in the room and cant see and trip over the coffee table and fall on you face, the switch is at a good height"

 

[don_resqcapt19]

If I’m playing devils advocate…A door can be an obstacle. Could we not say nec 404.8A applies when the door is blocking the switch? The switch not readily accessible.

That section does not really say what most think it says. It does not require the switch itself to be in a readily accessible location. It only requires that the switch can be operated from a readily accessible location. With the door swung open and the switch behind the door, as long as I can stand next to the door and reach my hand behind the door to operate the switch I have complied with the code rule.

All switches and circuit breakers used as switches shall be located so that they can be operated from a readily accessible place.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Also been in a situation where the GC put in the wrong door swing and switch become behind a door. Now try to find the switch after door is closed in the dark. I believe the situation of finding a switch in the dark is rationale for the requirement of a switch at each entry into the room and having 3 and 4 way switches.

The code does not require a switch at each entry. The code language is "located near an entrance to the room". The only code requirement for 3 or 4 way switches is stairs.

 

[roger]

All this worrying about a switch location and an inspector making his own rules when the NEC doesn't even require a Luminaire in the room, only a 'Lighting Outlet".

 

[Little Bill]

All this worrying about a switch location and an inspector making his own rules when the NEC doesn't even require a Luminaire in the room, only a 'Lighting Outlet".

Would you consider a switched receptacle in the ceiling, for the purpose of plugging in strip lights, a lighting outlet?

 

[kwired]

The 2020 code requires the switch to be located near an entrance to the room. Whatever that means.

Ron

This is required for the at least one required lighting outlet in said room. OP's was near the entrance even though may be considered impractical if behind the door.

Exceptions that follow would also allow an occupancy sensor that is in addition to the (questionably located) wall switch.

Past NEC editions however it would been acceptable to have the wall switch located two floors down if you really wanted it there.

 

[roger]

Would you consider a switched receptacle in the ceiling, for the purpose of plugging in strip lights, a lighting outlet?

Yes, that would comply with Ex 1 to 210.70(A)(1)

 

[LarryFine]

Would you consider a switched receptacle in the ceiling, for the purpose of plugging in strip lights, a lighting outlet?

Absolutely.

 

[Little Bill]

Yes, that would comply with Ex 1 to 210.70(A)(1)

I had a customer that just wanted switched receptacles in the ceiling of a garage so he could use strip lights. He also wanted to be able to move the lights if needed. The inspector made me put in a keyed light fixture stating someone could remove all the strip lights and they would be without lights!

 

[kwired]

All this worrying about a switch location and an inspector making his own rules when the NEC doesn't even require a Luminaire in the room, only a 'Lighting Outlet".

Has been mentioned though that some dwelling applications now require more specific location for somees switch starting with 2020 NEC, but apparently not clear enough on how specific that location is.

But maybe it would be acceptable for OP to allow cutting in an access door within the room door to reach through to operate the switch before entering the room?