Lighting switch installed behind a door.

[Rick 0920]

The only reason that "near" was added to the code rule was because in the previous codes, the code would have permitted you to install almost all of the light switches for a dwelling at a single location.

But instead of being so vague and giving the inspector 100% interpretation of such a vague rule, could the CMP require an exact dimension of
18" or 36" from the door or framed opening? If you were outside of this dimension you would be in violation of the NEC, but you still may be "near". Years ago, I remember that floor boxes did not count as the number of required receptacles unless they were "close" to the wall. I forget what code cycle this was, but it was in there.

 

[Little Bill]

I remember that floor boxes did not count as the number of required receptacles unless they were "close" to the wall. I forget what code cycle this was, but it was in there.

It was 18" and is still in there AFAIK.

 

[kwired]

But instead of being so vague and giving the inspector 100% interpretation of such a vague rule, could the CMP require an exact dimension of
18" or 36" from the door or framed opening? If you were outside of this dimension you would be in violation of the NEC, but you still may be "near". Years ago, I remember that floor boxes did not count as the number of required receptacles unless they were "close" to the wall. I forget what code cycle this was, but it was in there.

Picture a bathroom with tub or shower right next to the latch side of door. Other than outside the room where else can you put such required switch for lighting inside that room?

Granted you could put one switch outside the room adjacent to the door and place other switches for other luminaires, if desired, elsewhere within the room and you still would meet such a rule as long as the rule were not that it had to actually be in said room.

 

[kwired]

It was 18" and is still in there AFAIK.

Been there a long time and AFAK still is. How else can you comply without getting rather unrealistic for open stairway or loft railings or non moveable portions of patio doors or full length windows and such?

 

[Rick 0920]

Picture a bathroom with tub or shower right next to the latch side of door. Other than outside the room where else can you put such required switch for lighting inside that room?

Granted you could put one switch outside the room adjacent to the door and place other switches for other luminaires, if desired, elsewhere within the room and you still would meet such a rule as long as the rule were not that it had to actually be in said room.

I don't see where this has anything to do with what I said, but I always tried to wire homes like I would be living there. Where would I want it? In this condition, I would use a stack switch because I would want the switch to be in the room.

 

[kwired]

I don't see where this has anything to do with what I said, but I always tried to wire homes like I would be living there. Where would I want it? In this condition, I would use a stack switch because I would want the switch to be in the room.

Assume there is no practical or usable place for any switch between tub/shower and the door, what is your preference then?

I run into this more often maybe within a bath area that maybe has a separate "room" for the tub or shower maybe even toilet in that "room" with the tub or shower but sink is in a different "room". Though I'm sure I probably have encountered it on occasion when the bath was all just in one room. Pocket doors like to mess with you here as well, and can be hard to convince them to build thick enough wall for pocket door as well as switch box that is flush in the wall sometimes.

 

[mikeames]

I always tried to wire homes like I would be living there. Where would I want it? In this condition, I would use a stack switch because I would want the switch to be in the room.

As you should, that makes sense. That's what the majority of customers want the majority of the time, but the code should focus on electrical safety. The code should allow maximum flexibility for all installations regardless of how, impractical, weird or, non-traditional it is.

 

[Ohm2]

That section does not really say what most think it says. It does not require the switch itself to be in a readily accessible location. It only requires that the switch can be operated from a readily accessible location. With the door swung open and the switch behind the door, as long as I can stand next to the door and reach my hand behind the door to operate the switch I have complied with the code rule.

All this worrying about a switch location and an inspector making his own rules when the NEC doesn't even require a Luminaire in the room, only a 'Lighting Outlet".

True but code still requires a wall mounted control device near an entrance to the room. 210.70 2020 nec. I believe the subject was about a switch outlet behind the door not a lighting outlet.

 

[Ohm2]

The switch can be anywhere in the room.
And while a lighting outlet is required, a luminaire is not required.

That lighting outlet still needs to be controlled by a ( readily accessible) wall mounted control device ( 2020 nec) or wall switch (2017 nec). The subject is the location of the switch not the lighting outlet. Regardless the switch is there to control a lighting outlet—meaning we can’t ignore the switch.

 

[russ]

The only thing I would look at is the Stamped drawings. Are the door swing or the Switch location on the drawings?

 

[Fred B]

The only thing I would look at is the Stamped drawings. Are the door swing or the Switch location on the drawings?

While it may not fail for NEC reasons the AHJ might have a concern and comment related to it being behind the door, and require "something be changed". And good point, if the drawing that was approved and accepted by the AHJ shows something different than as installed, that might indicate who moves what, if they object to it as is.

 

[roger]

I believe the subject was about a switch outlet behind the door not a lighting outlet.

Like it or not, you could actually put both behind the door.

 

[rlqdot]

I cannot find in the NEC the code section ( other than common sense) that says you cannot put a switch behind a door. I wrote a correction to move the switch out past the door. I realize there is no code that says there is no requirement for a swicth but there is one now.

in my first new ground-up home, the contractor placed the switch for basement lights behind the door. no code issues, but as homeowner, i noted it on the punch list. GC resolved the problem by removing and replacing the door with one that swung the opposite direction. it was less costly for him to have his carpenter change the door than it was to call the electrician to move the switch.

 

[tortuga]

Back in the mid 2000's I had an electrical inspector who would love to tell stories about inspections he had done. One was how some unhappy inspectee gave him a Romanian curse and it was supposedly causing him bad luck. But the relevant one to this conversation was he said he went to this house, and the room switch was on the opposed wall from the entry door. He says to the inspectee:

"you put the switch too high"
"what do you mean that looks like a normal height"
"no you are supposed to put the switch a foot of the floor"
"a foot??? What do you mean, why?
"so that when you walk in the room and cant see and trip over the coffee table and fall on you face, the switch is at a good height"

When our house was being built a door was moved to the other side of a room after the electrical was in; the framers had misread the plans and had to fix it, and they didn't tell the electricians. The switch is across the room from the only entrance, so in our case "near" is about ten feet.

Years ago a while visiting a friend of mine and staying in her funky apartment there was a switch like that in the bedroom, across the room from the door it drove me completely nuts. One day while she was at work I moved the switch next to the door where it logically should be.
It ended up taking all weekend.
I patched and painted made it look like nothing happened.
When she moved out the landlord did a walkthru and paused for a long time at the switch, flipped it a few times, and said 'huh'.