Lighting switch installed behind a door.

[winnie]

For better or worse, when code uses subjective language, it creates a situation where both the inspector and electrician have wiggle room to decide subjectivity what is 'right'.

 

[rdshanks]

Unless something changed since the 2018 IRC, the building code has nothing to say about switch locations.

Ron

am looking at the 2022 California Electric code we dont adopt the IRC

 

[rdshanks]

Exactly what is “near?”

My rationale is nothing more than a common sense call of not having to look for a light switch behind a door in a dark room.

 

[roger]

My rationale is nothing more than a common sense call of not having to look for a light switch behind a door in a dark room.

And those you inspect haven't challenged your so called "common sense" rules?

 

[winnie]

My rationale is nothing more than a common sense call of not having to look for a light switch behind a door in a dark room.

IMHO this is _not_ your call, but is a subjective bit of code, thus we here cannot give you a definitive answer one way or the other. You as an inspector cannot simply make up code just because it feels right.

This is a question for the 'authority having jurisdiction', not the individual inspector, but rather the inspection department. Ideally your department has a solid definition for what constitutes 'near' which will let you take out a tape measure and give a go/no-go call. If you are an inspector in a small locality, your personal opinion might weigh quite heavily in what the 'AHJ' decides is an appropriate definition of 'near'.

IMHO this is akin to the rules in 230.70(A)(1) for service disconnects inside of buildings. There is no definition in code for how far unfused service disconnect conductors are permitted inside of a building, just a requirement for a disconnect 'nearest' where the conductors enter. What is allowed and rejected varies all over the place.

Personally: I agree that the requirement should be written so that someone standing in the doorway can reach the switch before entering the room. But the code says what it says. Reference Charlie's Rule: https://forums.mikeholt.com/threads/charliess-rule-for-reading-the-nec.2572403/

 

[Jraef]

This has been discussed here, a LOT...

Location of switches

I had a customer ask a question today I could not find in the Code book. He wanted to know the farthest distance a switch could be from an entrance to a room that controls the light in that room. I have looked, but have not found. I keep find the wording of 'customary wall switch location.'...

forums.mikeholt.com

NEC required light switch locations

I am unable to find in the NEC a requirement for switch location serving general lighting (non-dwelling installation). The only thing I have found is that a switch is required to be readily accessible. As I read article 100 readily accessable does not require the switch to be located in a...

forums.mikeholt.com

Light Switch Distance from Doorway

Does anyone know of an NEC requirement in regards to maximum distance that a light switch can be from a doorway... I.E. Bedroom, Office, etc. Thanks, Mike P

forums.mikeholt.com

Light switch location

Can anyone tell me if and where the NEC states how far from a doorway a light switch is required. There is a switch located about 6 feet from a doorway and my inspector failed it. I would like to see it in the code book! Thanks to all Vinny in Florida

forums.mikeholt.com

Required light switches

We have a warehouse that has an entrance door from the office, and a second door that allows access from the outside. These two doors are about 70 feet apart. Next to the second door, is a large "rollie" type door to allow vehicle access. The only light switches for the warehouse lighting are...

forums.mikeholt.com

Switch outside the room

In some cases it is more convenient and practical to have a light switch not by the entry inside the room but rather outside the room. Bathrooms can be small, crowded, etc. so that it makes sense to put a switch outside the bathroom close to the door opening. You turn the light on, enter the...

forums.mikeholt.com

The closest I see to any discussion on the location of switches is that

1. In 210.70(A)(1), where it is actually discussing lighting OUTLETS, Exception 2, referring to using an occupancy sensor, uses the following phrase: "... located at a customary wall switch location..." So that then implies there IS such a thing as a "customary" location, but that is not further defined, nor is customary the same as a requirement.
2. In 210.70(A)(3) and (C), referring to storage spaces, they use the phrase "At least one point of control shall be at the usual point of entry to these spaces.", again without further definition.

 

[rc/retired]

Exactly what is “near?”

Right. There is no definition, yet someone puts that into the body of the code.

Ron

 

[rc/retired]

Also no good for ADA or Accessibility.

Does ADA or ANSI actually state where a switch for a habitable can or can't be located? I know they specify a reach range.

Ron

 

[ggunn]

The 2020 code requires the switch to be located near an entrance to the room. Whatever that means.

When our house was being built a door was moved to the other side of a room after the electrical was in; the framers had misread the plans and had to fix it, and they didn't tell the electricians. The switch is across the room from the only entrance, so in our case "near" is about ten feet.

 

[roger]

Does ADA or ANSI actually state where a switch for a habitable can or can't be located? I know they specify a reach range.

Ron

Not AFAIK.

 

[Rick 0920]

Exactly what is “near?”

I posted this same thing recently. These ambiguous terms in the NEC really need to be corrected. What is "near" to me may not be considered as "near" to the AHJ! NEC 210.70 (A)(1)

 

[readydave8]

I think is purposely vague to allow inspector to determine based on site conditions

 

[roger]

"Near" can be behind a door no matter how it is defined.

 

[TwistLock]

If it's on a set of plans and switch, not door handing, is shown in a different location then you could enforce. (barring a change order).
Otherwise seems it's between contractor and the homeowner/builder.

 

[Rick 0920]

"Near" can be behind a door no matter how it is defined.

I learned the hard way just because it's code compliant that doesn't mean your customer is going to like it. Let's say you don't factor voltage drop into your installation, the inspector will pass the job based on NEC requirements that are met. But the customer won't pay you if the lamps barely put off any light.

 

[wwhitney]

"Near" can be behind a door no matter how it is defined.

This I'll disagree with.

For this particular application, we could define "near" as meaning say "when the door is open 90 degrees, the length of a string connecting the tip of the switch to the center point of the doorway shall not exceed 3', where the string may not pass through any opening smaller than 6" in diameter." If we had such a definition, and the door has no holes in it, and is at least 18" wide, a switch behind the door can never be "near".

Of course, as the NEC does not provide that definition, it is debatable whether the AHJ has the authority to interpret "near" as meaning something like that which would rule out switches behind doors.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[LarryFine]

Near: not far.

 

[rc/retired]

Near: not far.

Can't argue with that!

Ron

 

[roger]

This I'll disagree with.

I'm sure you will but Larry's explanation is the one I'd go with

But using your string just pass it through on the hinge side, and think about an anorexic with skinny arms.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

The only reason that "near" was added to the code rule was because in the previous codes, the code would have permitted you to install almost all of the light switches for a dwelling at a single location.