limit for using romex on apt building
- Thread starter MNMELEC
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bphgravity
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
Re: limit for using romex on apt building
Starting with the 2002 NEC, there is no limit to how many floors NM can be installed. See section 334.10 for specific permitted uses of NM cable. Prior to this edition, NM was restricted to 3 floors.
You may also want to check for local restrictions. Places like Chicago don't permit NM cable in any structure.
Starting with the 2002 NEC, there is no limit to how many floors NM can be installed. See section 334.10 for specific permitted uses of NM cable. Prior to this edition, NM was restricted to 3 floors.
You may also want to check for local restrictions. Places like Chicago don't permit NM cable in any structure.
resistance
Senior Member
- Location
- WA
Re: limit for using romex on apt building
>>>Places like Chicago don't permit NM cable in any structure<<<
Interesting! Why is this bph?
>>>Places like Chicago don't permit NM cable in any structure<<<
Interesting! Why is this bph?
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: limit for using romex on apt building
I have been asking for years why romex is safe in a house that has people sleeping in them but its not allowed in most commercial buildings where nobody is sleeping.Either its safe to use or its not.The only good reason to use it is it is cheap and fast to install
I have been asking for years why romex is safe in a house that has people sleeping in them but its not allowed in most commercial buildings where nobody is sleeping.Either its safe to use or its not.The only good reason to use it is it is cheap and fast to install
bphgravity
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
Re: limit for using romex on apt building
I believe it has less to do with safety and more to do with who has the greatest lobbying power and who has the CMPs' ears.
I also know it has something to do with NM's fire and smoke resistance rating.
I believe it has less to do with safety and more to do with who has the greatest lobbying power and who has the CMPs' ears.
I also know it has something to do with NM's fire and smoke resistance rating.
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: limit for using romex on apt building
Mrs. O'Leary's cow had something to do with it also.
Mrs. O'Leary's cow had something to do with it also.
physis
Senior Member
Re: limit for using romex on apt building
In a town, (not even incorperated if I have it right) called Hillsborough, It's our version of Beverly Hills, we must use MC or better. EMT, Rigid.
Ay, sumbudy mus wana peece a da action uh? Wat a ya kiddin me, fuget about it.
Trouble is the property owners out there are cheaper than the Scruge. $80.00 steaks $10.00 an hour work. Picasso, Einstien.
Are these cheapskates safer?
How many jobs do you think are being done without permits? I have better than an idea. (Don't accuse me, I'm not doing it).
In a town, (not even incorperated if I have it right) called Hillsborough, It's our version of Beverly Hills, we must use MC or better. EMT, Rigid.
Ay, sumbudy mus wana peece a da action uh? Wat a ya kiddin me, fuget about it.
Trouble is the property owners out there are cheaper than the Scruge. $80.00 steaks $10.00 an hour work. Picasso, Einstien.
Are these cheapskates safer?
How many jobs do you think are being done without permits? I have better than an idea. (Don't accuse me, I'm not doing it).
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: limit for using romex on apt building
Sam, I thought California had a state wide (in your case, state long) Code. If that is true and it is set up like Indiana (I can't imagine that), a city or town can't make their own rules without permission from the state. If any part of that is true, how can they do that, especially if they are not incorporated?
Sam, I thought California had a state wide (in your case, state long) Code. If that is true and it is set up like Indiana (I can't imagine that), a city or town can't make their own rules without permission from the state. If any part of that is true, how can they do that, especially if they are not incorporated?
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: limit for using romex on apt building
"I also know it has something to do with NM's fire and smoke resistance rating. "
Yes it does,but we still use it in homes.Why don't they just outlaw NM ? Do i see maybe some payoffs to let them keep making it,or is smoke ok for our kids to breath in a house fire ?
"I also know it has something to do with NM's fire and smoke resistance rating. "
Yes it does,but we still use it in homes.Why don't they just outlaw NM ? Do i see maybe some payoffs to let them keep making it,or is smoke ok for our kids to breath in a house fire ?
bphgravity
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
Re: limit for using romex on apt building
Is there any evidence that the NM in home fires have resulted in injury, sickness or death to persons? I would imagine that there are probably dozens of other materials used in home construction that release toxic smoke and have low fire ratings.
Is there any evidence that the NM in home fires have resulted in injury, sickness or death to persons? I would imagine that there are probably dozens of other materials used in home construction that release toxic smoke and have low fire ratings.
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: limit for using romex on apt building
Bryan, that is the biggest argument for the continued use of NM cable. Look at all the PVC pipe and conduit that is used, and all of the contents of homes (furniture coverings, carpet, plastic everywhere) that are used through the home. The reality is that the plastic coverings used in wiring is minor in comparison.
Jim, type NM cable is a good wiring method and has been doing a good job for a long time as long as it was installed correctly. The reason it took so long to get approval the be used in the manner that it is now is that both the steel tube industry and the plastic conduit industry wanted it restricted. In addition, the IBEW wanted to keep the restrictions on type NM.
Personally, I believe that type NM is a really good wiring method.
Bryan, that is the biggest argument for the continued use of NM cable. Look at all the PVC pipe and conduit that is used, and all of the contents of homes (furniture coverings, carpet, plastic everywhere) that are used through the home. The reality is that the plastic coverings used in wiring is minor in comparison.
Jim, type NM cable is a good wiring method and has been doing a good job for a long time as long as it was installed correctly. The reason it took so long to get approval the be used in the manner that it is now is that both the steel tube industry and the plastic conduit industry wanted it restricted. In addition, the IBEW wanted to keep the restrictions on type NM.
Personally, I believe that type NM is a really good wiring method.
physis
Senior Member
Re: limit for using romex on apt building
You know, I really don't know Charlie. I could be wrong about them being unincorperated.
Edit: I don't what they have to do legally. I keep meaning to get the ammendments from different cities but I never get around to it.
[ November 26, 2004, 12:02 PM: Message edited by: physis ]
You know, I really don't know Charlie. I could be wrong about them being unincorperated.
Edit: I don't what they have to do legally. I keep meaning to get the ammendments from different cities but I never get around to it.
[ November 26, 2004, 12:02 PM: Message edited by: physis ]
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: limit for using romex on apt building
I don't want to start a discussion or flaming of either the union shops or the merit shops. I do want you to know that there are advantages to both (even if the other side won't admit it). I have friends on both sides and have been on both sides. What you want to do is look at the advantages and disadvantages of each before making a change. I assure you that the work force on both sides want a clean, safe installation that is Code compliant.
When I made my first statement about the IBEW, it was a statement of fact as I know it. If this turns into a heated discussion (the same as politics and religion) I will lock this thread. the reason for this statement is that I know how strongly some feel and I shudder to think how fast feelings can escalate. I apologize if I come off sounding paranoid.
I don't want to start a discussion or flaming of either the union shops or the merit shops. I do want you to know that there are advantages to both (even if the other side won't admit it). I have friends on both sides and have been on both sides. What you want to do is look at the advantages and disadvantages of each before making a change. I assure you that the work force on both sides want a clean, safe installation that is Code compliant.
When I made my first statement about the IBEW, it was a statement of fact as I know it. If this turns into a heated discussion (the same as politics and religion) I will lock this thread. the reason for this statement is that I know how strongly some feel and I shudder to think how fast feelings can escalate. I apologize if I come off sounding paranoid.
physis
Senior Member
Re: limit for using romex on apt building
Charlie and all the union guys, my IBEW comment was a little pointed. My intension isn't to get anybody worked up. Only related to the lobbying effort. Like you said Charlie, personally, I see goods and bads on both sides. Myself, (and I'm not saying this to diffuse anything), I'm pretty much in the middle on the whole thing.
Charlie and all the union guys, my IBEW comment was a little pointed. My intension isn't to get anybody worked up. Only related to the lobbying effort. Like you said Charlie, personally, I see goods and bads on both sides. Myself, (and I'm not saying this to diffuse anything), I'm pretty much in the middle on the whole thing.
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: limit for using romex on apt building
NM is code min..EMT or MC is far safer from smoke problems and risk of catching fire.Yes at a much higher price.Seems if we did not mind paying for gfci and now afci that cost alone is not the issue.From a bidding standpoint we can not win jobs by using more costly systems and few home buyers would want to pay the differance.
I have seen fires that started from romex.Yes as a result of over fusing
[ November 26, 2004, 05:22 PM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]
NM is code min..EMT or MC is far safer from smoke problems and risk of catching fire.Yes at a much higher price.Seems if we did not mind paying for gfci and now afci that cost alone is not the issue.From a bidding standpoint we can not win jobs by using more costly systems and few home buyers would want to pay the differance.
I have seen fires that started from romex.Yes as a result of over fusing
[ November 26, 2004, 05:22 PM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]
Re: limit for using romex on apt building
not to fuel any debates, but i never had a problem discussing a tech problem with union electricians; they always seemed to know their stuff. on the other side, myself included, the learning curve had a very irregular shape, and too often it was financially driven (interms of quality).
paul
not to fuel any debates, but i never had a problem discussing a tech problem with union electricians; they always seemed to know their stuff. on the other side, myself included, the learning curve had a very irregular shape, and too often it was financially driven (interms of quality).
paul
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
- Occupation
- Massachusetts Master Electrician, one man show.
Re: limit for using romex on apt building
This could get ugly! :roll:
This could get ugly! :roll:
resistance
Senior Member
- Location
- WA
Re: limit for using romex on apt building
Thanks for the info.
Sounds political to me!
No comment on Union and non Union shops. I can tell you this, "the shop I work for is cheap (very)!!!!! I'm currently in the process of leaving! It's crazy on how cheap some of these companies are!! We don't even get paid for holidays! To top it off, the days off are extended. Example: For Thanksgiving, we got three days off with "no pay"
Thanks for the info.
Sounds political to me!
No comment on Union and non Union shops. I can tell you this, "the shop I work for is cheap (very)!!!!! I'm currently in the process of leaving! It's crazy on how cheap some of these companies are!! We don't even get paid for holidays! To top it off, the days off are extended. Example: For Thanksgiving, we got three days off with "no pay"
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Re: limit for using romex on apt building
Don
In this area construction workers do not normally get holiday pay. They get paid only for the hours that they actually work.
Don
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