mc in plastic boxes

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You can live in the fantasy land of listings. I'll live in the world of using common sense when using connectors. And common sense tells me it's fine to use an MC connector in a plastic box with the proper bonding means applied to it.

This is a code forum not a whatever Pete wants to do forum. Whether we think it is right or wrong it is still the code and we are supposed to follow it.
Maybe the mc connectors are listed for plastic boxes the jurry is still out on that one. I need to see it .
Code and safe are 2 different concepts.
There is too much political input in to this code process and everyone has a different agenda.
I am just waiting until the nfpa gets sued for someone getting killed when an arcfault trips the lighting ckt and they walk through a plate glass window in the dark and bleeds to death.
Then we will require em lighting in residences and on and on and on.
 
The greatest issue I have with using the z-clips in nonmetallic boxes such as these...

image_switch_five6.gif


...is that installers will turn a keyless around so that the neutral contacts the grounding conductor so that the breaker won't trip from the keyless' ungrounded terminal contacting the grounding screw of the box.
I'm totally lost on this post. I don't understand a single thing you just said. Could you explain yourself better please?
 
This is a code forum not a whatever Pete wants to do forum.

So because I disagree on this issue now it's a "whatever Pete wants to do forum." :confused: In that case, you can remove my name and insert just about everybody's name in there because we have all disagreed at some point.

When you show me the code that specifically forbids it, then I'll agree with you. Until then, I stand by my position. And I'll state once again that as long as the MC cable is bonded somehow then I can install it in plastic box.
 
So because I disagree on this issue now it's a "whatever Pete wants to do forum." :confused: In that case, you can remove my name and insert just about everybody's name in there because we have all disagreed at some point.

When you show me the code that specifically forbids it, then I'll agree with you. Until then, I stand by my position. And I'll state once again that as long as the MC cable is bonded somehow then I can install it in plastic box.
I did show you the code forbiding it. I would have 10 more code sharks up my tail if I didnt. Dont be so sensitive the jury is still out. I love you man.
 
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I did show you the code forbiding it. I would have 10 more code sharks up my tail if I didnt.

Call me 'up your tail' as the code section you posted only requires the fitting to be listed for the type of cable not the type of box.

Now Scott asked you a very straight forward question.


What kind of connector would you use with this box?

A615_.jpg

Do you have an answer? :smile:
 
Call me 'up your tail' as the code section you posted only requires the fitting to be listed for the type of cable not the type of box.

Now Scott asked you a very straight forward question.




Do you have an answer? :smile:


I would use a 1/2 PVC or other non-metallic type fitting for this box.

I posted 314.3 and the 2 exceptions as the code section that keeps one from using MC connectors unless the box is designed as in the two exceptions. The box you have in your post would not be acceptable for MC cable.

It is possible that a manufacturer has come out with a box other than what the NEC now requires, but I am not aware of them, there are a lot of new products out these days
 
Call me 'up your tail' as the code section you posted only requires the fitting to be listed for the type of cable not the type of box.

Now Scott asked you a very straight forward question.




Do you have an answer? :smile:
Of course I do.

I would use a fitting that is listed and identified for such USE.
I am waiting for an answer from the manufacturer as to the listing and USE of its connectors. I will probably get a pdf file sometime monday as I have never had the need to use a plastic box with mc cable before today.
It must be a local practice.:smile:
 
.I posted 314.3 and the 2 exceptions as the code section that keeps one from using MC connectors unless the box is designed as in the two exceptions. The box you have in your post would not be acceptable for MC cable.

The way I read the exceptions when it says "provided" one could say that they (the installer) are providing the bonding bushings between the threaded entries. It doesn't say that the bonding means has to be "provided" by the manufacturer. So I could see how this could go either way. The NEC maybe should be more clear on who they mean for "providing" the bonding means.
 
I posted 314.3 and the 2 exceptions as the code section that keeps one from using MC connectors unless the box is designed as in the two exceptions. The box you have in your post would not be acceptable for MC cable.

I disagree entirely with your interpretation of 314.3.

314.3 is not in Part III Construction Specifications, it is in Part I Scope and General. The significance being is if I as the installer provide bonding between all used entries I have meet the requirements.

If I have one MC entry I have no bonding to do, if I have more than one MC or EMT entry I would have to provide bonding between them, that would easily be accomplished with bonding bushings and a jumper.

It is possible that a manufacturer has come out with a box other than what the NEC now requires,

NEC 314.3 does not require a specific box, it requires bonding.
 
Connectors never have been listed as suitable for a certain type of box. Never, ever. Connectors are simply listed for a certain wiring method. Alternately, there is not a single box with knockouts that is listed for use only with certain connectors. I defy anyone to show proof otherwise.
 
The greatest issue I have with using the z-clips in nonmetallic boxes such as these...

image_switch_five6.gif


...is that installers will turn a keyless around so that the neutral contacts the grounding conductor so that the breaker won't trip from the keyless' ungrounded terminal contacting the grounding screw of the box.

I'm totally lost on this post. I don't understand a single thing you just said. Could you explain yourself better please?
Sorry, I didn't see your post.

In my area, it's common to insist on the installer to essentially "bond a fiberglass box" using the grounding clip shown in the picture. When a keyless lampholder is installed in a box that contains this clip, then a set of the terminals of the keyless will come into contact with this grounding accessory.

The grounding accessory is not required by the NEC, IMO. It is provided in case the luminaire installed does not have a grounding tail.

If the keyless is installed one way, the ungrounded terminal of the keyless will come into contact with the grounding terminal of the box, kicking the breaker.

If the keyless is installed the other way, the neutral terminal of the keyless comes into contact instead, which won't kick the breaker - but now the EGC becomes a parallel neutral path for the keyless, violating 250.6.
 
Sorry, I didn't see your post.

In my area, it's common to insist on the installer to essentially "bond a fiberglass box" using the grounding clip shown in the picture. When a keyless lampholder is installed in a box that contains this clip, then a set of the terminals of the keyless will come into contact with this grounding accessory.

The grounding accessory is not required by the NEC, IMO. It is provided in case the luminaire installed does not have a grounding tail.

If the keyless is installed one way, the ungrounded terminal of the keyless will come into contact with the grounding terminal of the box, kicking the breaker.

If the keyless is installed the other way, the neutral terminal of the keyless comes into contact instead, which won't kick the breaker - but now the EGC becomes a parallel neutral path for the keyless, violating 250.6.
I'm not understanding how either terminal of the keyless would come into contact with the bonding strip, not am I understanding why there would ever be a need to bond a plastic box.
 
I know [at least hope :wink:] those aren't "your" words George ~ that is one of the silliest things I have ever heard.:grin:

I like the bonding device, I didn't get the first of the responses myself but I do understand the second.

Maybe it's my bad understanding of new electric circuit install but isn't all point of usuage for devices to have the Bond, and bond it, and does this tab not provide a means to Bond the GReen wire and chasis of a keyless?

Well I was thinking just that till the second explaination, I thought that it was a means of bonding everybit of the metal arms and supply a bond point for that and keyless. I do like that tab, but I've never touched one!
 
Maybe it's my bad understanding of new electric circuit install but isn't all point of usuage for devices to have the Bond, and bond it, and does this tab not provide a means to Bond the GReen wire and chasis of a keyless?

I've never seena keyless that has a metal chassis. They all have either porcelain or plastic bodies. If there was any metal to the body then it would have a green ground sdrew don't you think and it then would be connected by the ground wires and they would be bonded with a wirenut since the box is all plastic minus the bonding strap which is totally not necessary. :)
 
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then would be connected by the ground wires and they would be bonded with a wirenut since the box is all plastic minus the bonding strap which is totally not necessary. :)

But you missed the connection of the bolt bonding the arms, Put it this way if a bond screw is there (as this is designed ) should you use it ?

PLastic Keyless, you need to upgrade your clients :)
 
But you missed the connection of the bolt bonding the arms, Put it this way if a bond screw is there (as this is designed ) should you use it ?

PLastic Keyless, you need to upgrade your clients :)
well in this case I would think that it would or should be a green ground screw on the piece of metal in order to ground not bond the metal bar that supports the box.
 
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