Meter ring tool

[Towzzer]

regarding a neutral break

regarding a neutral break

I saw someone say this during this thread about the meter and your various nefarious activites to get into it . "tree broke a neutral and cost thousands of damage". I hate to be slighty off topic but what happens when a neutral is cut, a surge in voltage?

 

[jeff43222]

With no neutral, the only voltage available will be 240V. Anything wired to work strictly on 240V would still work, but non-MWBCs would stop working since there would be no return path for the current. Where it gets interesting is MWBCs would go from being 120V circuits in parallell to 240V circuits in series. That's when things start to blow up and catch fire.

 

[Minuteman]

Not to mention the fact that the Hot conductor might contact the metal part of the service, and, not being grounded anymore, make things quite surprising.

 

[infinity]

Around here most meter pan locks are installed in a 1/2" KO that's built into the front of the meter pan. Some have a ring around the meter with a lock. On a service upgrade we usually call the POCO in advance to come out and remove the lock prior to the install. However if the lock is still there we simply use a 1 1/8" hole saw with the pilot bit removed and drill out the meter pan around the lock. If the meter still has a ring attached we break out the angle grinder and grind the lock off in a few minutes. Since the POCO doesn't want the pan back no one seems to care. Besides not all meters get locks around here. Most just get a numbered metal seal that can be cut off with a pair of pliers.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Jim I always like that you shoot from the hip without looking anything up.




From the first page of the Florida Light & Power Green Book.



There is an exception for an emergency and you still have to have permission and you have to cut the drop first, oh and it only applies to overhead service.....but hey you can read it yourself.

Section III-1 of FLPs rules

Your the one shooting from hip this time,florida light and power does not serve Tampa.And i have and will cut seals when property and my life is at risk.They can take me to court if they like.Also note the meter can is customer owned here.

 

[77401]

tools to open meter lockbands

tools to open meter lockbands

One minute on google & look here!
http://www.brooksutility.com/catalog/product-detail.asp?ID=352

this is what Our POCO uses

 

[iwire]

Your the one shooting from hip this time,Florida light and power does not serve Tampa.And i have and will cut seals when property and my life is at risk.They can take me to court if they like.Also note the meter can is customer owned here.

Jim sorry I did not know that.

But wait, that info from FLP showed a Florida statute.

Do Florida Statutes not apply to Tampa?

Tell me what power company does serve Tampa and I will look the rules up for you.

The customers own the meter socket here in MA as well.

The minute the customer sets up an account with the power company they agreed to the Power company rules.

One of those common rules is that the meter socket is not customer accessible.

Do they let you take apart the cash register at the grocery story when you buy your Twinkies?

Jim do whatever you want, we have all pulled meters.

I can think of few 'true' emergencies for meter pulling.

If there is the current of shorting service conductors on the load side of the meter I am not pulling the meter, I will be calling the FD.

If the problem is not in the short section of service conductors between the meter and the service disconnect pulling the meter is not the answer anyway.

Lets all be honest, the primary reason we do not call for a meter to be pulled is poor planing.

My point here is to let the new guys know that there are rules and at the least they should know about them before they go yanking meters.

We have not even touched on the OSHA implications of pulling a meter.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Bob i am not suggesting we pull meters when not required,put there are times when we cant schedule or wait for them to show up.The customer will not like paying me to just stand there.Also if i am changing out a service i allways allow atleast 4 hours.Often things dont go as planed.If i just had them off for 4 hours the last thing they need is to wait any longer with no ac or frig..Never had a poco get upset when they are called the next day and asked to come seal it.Illegal yes but done all the time.
TECO,Progress Energy,Wauchula Electric serve our area

 

[iwire]

So in short.

The reason is poor planing and you see it as a good idea to break the rules and laws if they are not convenient.

What a good message for those just starting out in the trade.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

So in short.

The reason is poor planing and you see it as a good idea to break the rules and laws if they are not convenient.

What a good message for those just starting out in the trade.

Often a panel change is not planned.Might start out as service call.If its bad enough that i think it is ready to start a fire i will change it without notice to poco.

 

[iwire]

Often a panel change is not planned.Might start out as service call.If its bad enough that i think it is ready to start a fire i will change it without notice to poco.

Jim This is a Code website, it is not a DIY site.

We can not be suggesting breaking the law here.

 

[jeff43222]

So in short.

The reason is poor planing and you see it as a good idea to break the rules and laws if they are not convenient.

What a good message for those just starting out in the trade.

I just pulled a meter today. It took me a couple of minutes to get it out of the old socket, which is now in the HO's garbage can.

The reason I pull meters myself is that it's just a lot more efficient and convenient for me to do it than to get the PoCo involved. The PoCo here doesn't mind me doing this. If they wanted me to call them first and let them pull the meter, I'd do it that way. But the local PoCo's attitude toward licensed electricians is very different from the way they deal with Joe Homeowner. If you are properly licensed, they let you do things they won't let homeowners do.

I agree that it's generally not a good idea to break rules and laws, especially if the reason is that it's not convenient to follow them.

 

[iwire]

I give up on this one and I am kind of upset about it.

I am baffled that so many that have total regard for the NEC have a total disregard for actual laws. I guess that is a personal choice.

However what is really steaming me is that well respected members are basically telling all the lurkers out there that the rules mean nothing, forget OSHA, forget the written rules of the power company, forget the actual laws of your area and mostly forget about your personal safety, all because you can not plan more than 1/2 day in advance.

 

[77401]

Rules are meant to be bent. We all pull meters, POCO's are a pain in the rear. Especially when I don't plan ahead.
So What Bob!

Not that I want to choose sides, especially, in Tampa, but when a service call turns into a service change out and we all know that its common practice to have main breaker panels & meter sockets on a shelf in the van. LOL
We all pull the meter, work hot drops, & fagetabout the permit, and charge the HO the same $$$

 

[drg]

I don't see the big deal in pulling a meter either, around here the utility guys hand out the spare seals to licensed electricians so they don't have to be bothered with such tasks as pulling a meter so a electrician can do their job .

As far as OSHA and saftey what difference does it make if a utility worker or a electrician pulls the meter , whats the big difference other than a set of rules no one really seems to care about out in the field.

 

[jeff43222]

I give up on this one and I am kind of upset about it.

I am baffled that so many that have total regard for the NEC have a total disregard for actual laws. I guess that is a personal choice.

However what is really steaming me is that well respected members are basically telling all the lurkers out there that the rules mean nothing, forget OSHA, forget the written rules of the power company, forget the actual laws of your area and mostly forget about your personal safety, all because you can not plan more than 1/2 day in advance.

I hadn't really considered how lurkers might react to things I post, but my feeling on that is that since this site is supposed to be for professionals, we really don't need to be careful about saying something that DIYers might not understand. DIYers aren't really supposed to be here, but there's nothing we can do to stop them.

My intent was not to suggest that rules mean nothing, laws are made to be ignored, and working live is no big deal. Some of my comments were meant to be humorous, but it's my fault for not making that obvious. My girlfriend finds this somewhat frustrating about me, but she's learning.

I was only relating my experiences in this area. As far as I know, I'm not violating any PoCo rules or laws. When the PoCo invited me to move an underground service while it was live (which I refused to do), the only way I could do that is by breaking into the meter socket, so that tells me the PoCo doesn't have a problem with me cracking them open. Every meter socket I've ever cracked open was part of a service upgrade where the PoCo was duly notified, or during troubleshooting. In the case of the latter, I called the PoCo immediately after I cracked open the socket and told them what I was up to. They thanked me for the call and sent out a crew to investigate after I found a problem on the PoCo side. The PoCo has been informed every time I have opened up a meter socket, and no one has ever said anything to me to indicate that I shouldn't do that.

As for OSHA and safety, since I'm a one-man show I'm pretty sure OSHA doesn't apply to me. I doubt they are going to fine me for putting myself in danger. I know the situation would be different if I had employees. But I get to decide how much danger I'm willing to subject myself to, and it's a judgment call. I look at the pros and cons and go from there. Some things I do are somewhat dangerous, but that's the nature of the business. I don't think I'd be able to stay in business if I insisted on never working on anything that was live. I take precautions, and I'm aware of the risks.

 

[Minuteman]

Here are some pics of my meter ring tool.

Closed

Open

 

[bkludecke]

I do have employees and I would much rather have them pull a meter and work the panel de-energized than to try and work hot (i think Cal-Osha would agree). With a service change there is time to plan ahead for a POCO disconnect. On a service call it could take 1-2hrs to get the POCO out, who is supposed to pay for the time we are waiting? When I can get service in 15 minutes I'll let them disconnect, until then I guess I'll be an outlaw for safety's sake.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Jeff,

and working live is no big deal

That is why we keep having electricians hurt and killed.

 

[77401]

Here are some pics of my meter ring tool.

Closed

Open

You are the man!!
Drooling..................