Meter ring tool

[tom baker]

Roughly 3.74mm Dia?
Seems pretty exact to me!
I have found that if you get to know the POCO meter crews, they will help you out. Our POCO construction crews are contractors, but the meter shop is still company crew. Just give them a days notice.

 

[jeff43222]

Jeff,

and working live is no big deal

That is why we keep having electricians hurt and killed.

Which is why I said my intent was not to suggest that working live was no big deal.

I agree with you. Working live is a big deal. I only do it under certain circumstances.

 

[jeff43222]

The meter ring tool does look nifty, and I'd totally want one if:

• I didn't already have more tools than I want to haul around.
• I had an actual use for one

I haven't encountered one of these locks yet.

 

[Minuteman]

Okay, so... I have the tool. That does not give me free reign. I still call ahead when I know in advance. I just can offer quicker service to some customers than can most of my competitors.

 

[Minuteman]

The meter ring tool does look nifty, and I'd totally want one if:

• I didn't already have more tools than I want to haul around.
• I had an actual use for one

I haven't encountered one of these locks yet.

The lock comes in 3 types and this tool works on them all. The local POCO calls it a WATT LOCK and it either locks around the ring or through a 1/2'" KO.

They usually in install them where they think the customer is cheating them. A permit or just a repair invoice from a EC will excuse a cut seal.

I get some calls were the POCO cut the overhead before the point of attachment and the meter base (or pan, or can) is all boogered up. I pull the lock off, do the repair, lock it back and call for an inspection.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

So in short.

The reason is poor planing and you see it as a good idea to break the rules and laws if they are not convenient.

What a good message for those just starting out in the trade.

I will start asking customers to plan there bad panels and meter sockets.Maybe where your at they are faster but here it is not likely to happen in less than a day.Have fire department on standby.

 

[Minuteman]

I give up on this one and I am kind of upset about it.

I am baffled that so many that have total regard for the NEC have a total disregard for actual laws. I guess that is a personal choice.

However what is really steaming me is that well respected members are basically telling all the lurkers out there that the rules mean nothing, forget OSHA, forget the written rules of the power company, forget the actual laws of your area and mostly forget about your personal safety, all because you can not plan more than 1/2 day in advance.

Planning is kind of difficult in Oklahoma "where the wind comes sweeping down the plain." Ever seen the movie "Twister"? I'm sure they have their own problems in Florida and the East coast as well.

 

[busman]

Around here it is a crap-shoot. I always call the PoCo (Dominion VA Power) before doing anything with a meter. Sometimes they tell me that I shouldn't touch their equipment - so I wait (usually not very long) for them to disconnect/reconnect. Other times they don't want to bother and say - "You're a licensed electrician, you can do it if you want. Just call us to re-tag it when you are done."

With all of this talk about working hot, it should be made clear that with residential services, someone HAS to work it hot. I say that because someone has to remove the meter - and this IS hot work. I know the PoCo people are exempt from 70E, but that doesn't make it any safer. I have never seen one bit of arc-flash protection on a PoCo employee. For those who might think removing a meter is safe - I had a meter terminal short out and explode. I was about 6 feet away and had just removed my arc-flash shield when 'boom'. The insulator cracked and noone was even touching the thing. I wasn't injured thanks to my safety glasses (there are bits of metal that melted into the glass).

I guess my point is that short of disconnecting at the transformer, someone always has to take some risk in residential. Thanks to this forum, I use PPE and call the PoCo to get a service request number first.

Mark

 

[bikeindy]

I will start asking customers to plan there bad panels and meter sockets.Maybe where your at they are faster but here it is not likely to happen in less than a day.Have fire department on standby.

Jim,

You know Iwire is right, have you tried to call PoCo and have them get there while you drive off for the materials you need? If you tell the POCO that there is an unsafe condition I can't imangine they would take a whole day to come out to open a can or drop the lines.

Here all that is required if there is no lock is a call to POCO and if there is a lock as I said before wait maybe 20 minutes even though they will tell you 2 Hrs on the phone.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Jim,

You know Iwire is right, have you tried to call PoCo and have them get there while you drive off for the materials you need? If you tell the POCO that there is an unsafe condition I can't imangine they would take a whole day to come out to open a can or drop the lines.

Here all that is required if there is no lock is a call to POCO and if there is a lock as I said before wait maybe 20 minutes even though they will tell you 2 Hrs on the phone.

And for 2 hours you do what ? Things are differant down here.When my choices are work it hot or pull meter i do not think of what Bob would say.I look at the job and make my own mind up as to if it can wait or not.Its my life not his.On one call i made a few years ago ,the meter socket had a bad lug.Because of what was around it (metal roof,trees,no clear space) i refused to cut the drop and did call TECO.They took there sweet time and scheduled it for the next day.Then there rep looked at me and asked if i was going to pull a permit.The poor home owner paid for 2 trips .Job took 15 minutes.I will not ask a homeowner to spend a night at motel and buy dinner out for his family,loose all his food in frig because of a stupid law that says dont cut the tag.We all break laws, except Bob.Speeding is illegal too.

 

[77401]

Get ready to Rumble

Get ready to Rumble

In the red corner we have IWire, standing in at 190 pounds, wearing red trunks. I wire has over 10,000 post & is undefeated in not breaking the rules or deviating from the NEC. Iwire pulls permits for changing ballasts.

In the Blue corner, we have Tampa Jim, Standing in at 190 lbs also and wearing Blue trunks. Tampa Kim has only a few post but is quickly becoming the bad guy favorite on the forum. Tampa Jim is also undefeated in doing what ever he wants, when ever he wants, with no regard to rules or the NEC & only looking out for his own Safety. Tampa Jiom pulls permits if he's in a High visibility area only.

The following bout is called for Three, 5 minute rounds. The first one to get knocked out, or tap out from submission, looses.
Lets Get it on!!!

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

In the red corner we have IWire, standing in at 190 pounds, wearing red trunks. I wire has over 10,000 post & is undefeated in not breaking the rules or deviating from the NEC. Iwire pulls permits for changing ballasts.

In the Blue corner, we have Tampa Jim, Standing in at 190 lbs also and wearing Blue trunks. Tampa Kim has only a few post but is quickly becoming the bad guy favorite on the forum. Tampa Jim is also undefeated in doing what ever he wants, when ever he wants, with no regard to rules or the NEC & only looking out for his own Safety. Tampa Jiom pulls permits if he's in a High visibility area only.

The following bout is called for Three, 5 minute rounds. The first one to get knocked out, or tap out from submission, looses.
Lets Get it on!!!

LOL. I had no idea that the number of posts means your right or wrong.I am not the only one cutting seals.Tell your boss what all you wont do and i bet he adds one more to it.I have my klines in my hand,let me at that tuff seal.

 

[bkludecke]

We cut seals, pull meters and cut/reconnect service drops. We do it for safety, customer service, and economy. Now and then the poco people get upset with me and we have a 'prayer meeting' and we promise to not do it so much and they promise to be more prompt on call outs. This lasts a couple of weeks and we're all back to the SOS. Whatever.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

We cut seals, pull meters and cut/reconnect service drops. We do it for safety, customer service, and economy. Now and then the poco people get upset with me and we have a 'prayer meeting' and we promise to not do it so much and they promise to be more prompt on call outs. This lasts a couple of weeks and we're all back to the SOS. Whatever.

Your asking for it from the other Bob.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

On one job the poco guys notice when driving by that i had cut the seal and had the bypass handle up.Told them i was hot checking (the truth) they said no problem and asked me to please reseal when finished (hand full of seals).Now if what i was doing was actually trying to run the house i agree they should be upset.Here we can not get power before the C/O so no real safe way around this.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Try this one ,we are working at a poco facility(storage,garage ,offices ) power went out )Fast fix ? LOL not a chance it still had to go the slow route.In short we dont care how it is done up north.You in the south now !!!!!
That fire can wait till after my break.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Our POCO`s amaze me.I called one and told them the trans had fallen into a sink hole and had latterals exposed and it took the a month to come out to check it and another month to fix the situation.But I had to hotcheck a home that was closing and the t pole was to far away to energize the home so i used the bypass on the 320/400 meter base.The POCO showed up and the guy went ballistic when he saw the bypass used.He called the sheriff and almost had me arrested for theft of service.Since then I call the POCO and schedule a meet with them to deenergize and reenergize.Makes customers unhappy but they aren`t going to be the ones to bail me out

How about we need you to cut the old service so they can final our new service ,3 days later i say forget it cut it my self and hand the meter to the GC and tape off the wires at the pole.OR try this one after a week of waiting i need my t pole for another job.They say cut it yourself and hang meter under the meter can.Coil up the drop and nail it to the pole.Bob would not last a week down here.He is right but i gotta get it done.

 

[monkey]

Our local POCO standards book requests five business days notification for power kills. In reality, I called for one at the beginning of Sept and the soonest they can do it is the 20th. The only reason I need them is because it is underground and we are changing the meter socket as well.

For overhead I will shut off the main, cut the drop and move it aside while we replace the service. Then the meter gets plugged into the new can. If there is a lock, we leave the whole can there leaning up against the house for the POCO to remove, and we power up the house with bypass links. The POCO never says anything, they just estimate the bill. Even though the POCO standards forbid these actions, they have never come back on any of the licensed EC's I know.

Cutting the drop first eliminates the possibility of a socket exploding on you.

 

[marinesgt0411]

so how about this

have to drill holes in top of panel to add conduit and circuits to panel would like to turn panel completely off during this operation only way to turn panel completely off is to pull meter

call FPL on Wed morning 30 Aug tell them would like to have meter pulled on Mon morning 4 Sept for the day and then reinstalled the same afternoon FPL says is this an emergency we say no FPL says they can have someone out on Sept 18 or 19 if no emergencys come up. and they will not commit themselfs to haveing meter reinstalled the same day with such a short notice (3 weeks is short notice I guess) ask if we can cut seal and pull meter and just have them come out for reinstall FPL says if seal is cut they have to charge for a service call and fine us for cutting seal. so my one man 2 or 3 hour job just turned into a job that requires our safty supervisors approval 2 qualified hot work techs and hot work forms filled out and approved work being done in 80 and 90 degree weather in the hot suit with gloves that are almost imposable to install a half inch locknut with. job turned into a 7 hour 2 man job with most of the time 1 man just standing there watching the other work T&M job that the home owner was not at all happy with but could do nothing about. waiting for FPL would hold up other trades drywallers trim carpenters painters

so is it lack of plannig on my part because I feel three days is ample time to schedule something If you are a service tech where are you going to be working on Monday or Tuesday not in general be exact.and do not tell me that you never have to change your schedule at the last minute and go someplace that you had not planned on and put something that you did plan on on hold .

enough of my ranting and raveing FPL has to much power (no pun intended) and we have no choice but to bow to there wimms.

 

[mxslick]

I gotta chime in here...

I gotta chime in here...

O.k., here's the scoop on three different service changes I did on three different locations (my own house, and two family member's homes)

In two of the three cases I cut the seals and removed the meters myself, live and without cutting the drop first. (I had an experience much later working with an EC where I now cut the drop BEFORE pulling the meter on service changes.) All three locations in the same POCO's service area. All three jobs done with permits, and POCO was notified to "spot the new meter." (Making sure new service location was accessable to meter readers.)

My own house: 200 amp upgrade from original 100amp Zinsco: Originally told to go ahead and relocate the drop myself if I was comfortable doing so. I had requested a heavier drop so moot point. Crew took a quick look at the meter, reseated it in the new panel and sealed it. No comment about me cutting/removing meter. They showed up within an hour after I called.

Family house #1: Relocated new panel to other side of house. POCO told me to pull meter and place it in the new panel, they would be out to hang new drop in 2-4 hours. They were there in 25 minutes. No comment made on my transferring the meter or cutting the old drop from the old service. (I left it attached to the riser.)

Family house #2: Relocated new panel around the corner of the house, about 6 feet closer to the drop pole. Was originally told when I called in to leave meter and drop alone. POCO promised crew within 2 hours. Four hours later, just as I was calling in to check, the crew pulled up, took one look at the set-up and the forman asked why I hadn't pulled the meter and moved the drop myself!! Told him what I was told by "the office." He said , B.S., it doesn't matter! He also, unasked, gave me a handful of seals and a few spare blank socket covers and rings. (The old wire seal style.)

All these service changes were made within 18 months of each other, in the same county.

My point is, even in the same POCO, the same service territory, they didn't have a clue as to what thier own policy was!!

This was in the late 80's so I'm positive things have changed since.

But to the point of pulling meters for service changes/emergencies(of fire or arcing fault nature):

For service changes, to protect me while working, I will always pull a meter/cut a drop if necessary. I will always notify the POCO of that action, prior to doing it, but if they tell me anything other than a few hours wait, I will do it. If they can get there in a few hours or less, candidly I would wait it out, take a break for food or whatever, and not charge my customer. After all, it's not the customer's fault the POCO can't get there on time, right? So why should the customer pay? I feel that the loss of those two hours will be repaid in customer goodwill.

For emergencies, I would notify the POCO and/or fire dept. and let them deal with it. Be honest, who would want to remove a meter/cut a drop under fault conditions?

That experience I'd mentioned before? I was working for an EC on a service change, old panel and socket. Went to remove meter, it wouldn't budge. Following advice of POCO friend, using my gloved hands, smacked the meter once on each side then tried pulling again. The meter came out allright...the line side lugs broke free of the insulating support and blew the meter out of my hands and across the yard. I cut the drop (which I should have done first..) then removed that panel with my 20lb. sledge. The meter met the same fate.

The POCO crew for reconnect got a good laugh when they saw the carnage. Luckily for me they had planned on replacing the meter anyway.