Multifamily DIY electrical repair restrictions

[jumper]

Bernard, are you asking about the law those specific areas or just general opinion?

I know Baltimore adopts independently of the state, not sure about Carrol County.

I work on the Eastern Shore, Talbot County.

 

[jumper]

In this state doing your own plumbing work is against the law. It has been that way for decades.

It is also almost universally ignored, go into any big box store and watch the plumbing supplies being sold.

So IMO having a law that is ignored does more harm than good.

I know I would ignore that rule.

 

[Bernard1599]

Bernard, are you asking about the law those specific areas or just general opinion?

I know Baltimore adopts independently of the state, not sure about Carrol County.

I work on the Eastern Shore, Talbot County.

Hi Derek,

I was inquiring if anyone here works in an area where there are specific restrictions forbidding resident owners of condos in a multifamily dwelling for them to do their own electrical repairs. I mentioned Baltimore County & Carroll County because I misread your question. I thought you asked me where I am licensed. I have calls in to my 2 favorite inspectors in those counties but they are both out on vacation for Memorial Day. I will post regarding these 2 areas' rules next week.

Bernard

 

[Bernard1599]

In this state doing your own plumbing work is against the law. It has been that way for decades.

It is also almost universally ignored, go into any big box store and watch the plumbing supplies being sold.

So IMO having a law that is ignored does more harm than good.

Hi iwire,

I disagree. Without a law or rule on the books anything goes and nothing would be illegal. Injured parties because of shoddy or unsafe work would have no recourse for property or personal damages.

Strap on a gun and and take it out on their hide?

Bernard

 

[kwired]

Interesting. I would think oppressive HOAs would have the inverse effect, from spite. I do not have any clinical studies to confirm or disprove that, however.


Would I get nervous knowing that someone in my condo swapped a receptacle without hiring an electrician? :roll:

Man, if something like that is all I have to worry about in any given day that is a really good day.

Some people do worry about what everyone else is doing pretty much all the time. This kind of activity seems to increase in people that have reached retirement age, and goes well beyond who is doing electircal work and where.

 

[Bernard1599]

Some people do worry about what everyone else is doing pretty much all the time. This kind of activity seems to increase in people that have reached retirement age, and goes well beyond who is doing electircal work and where.

Hi kwired,

Sort of like driving down the highway at 65 mph and having 5 or 6 cars around you with the drivers texting. But, not to worry, I?m at retirement age and I shouldn?t be worried about those other drivers because I?m in no danger.

Bernard

 

[jumper]

Hi Derek,

I was inquiring if anyone here works in an area where there are specific restrictions forbidding resident owners of condos in a multifamily dwelling for them to do their own electrical repairs. I mentioned Baltimore County & Carroll County because I misread your question. I thought you asked me where I am licensed. I have calls in to my 2 favorite inspectors in those counties but they are both out on vacation for Memorial Day. I will post regarding these 2 areas' rules next week.

Bernard

Please post, I am curious. I did a quick search for Baltimore and it seems that no homeowner, SFD, MFD, or condo, can do any electrical work period, only licensed electricians and you need a permit for everything-including changing a device or light fixture. Wow. Let us know if this true or not.

 

[kwired]

Hi kwired,

Sort of like driving down the highway at 65 mph and having 5 or 6 cars around you with the drivers texting. But, not to worry, I?m at retirement age and I shouldn?t be worried about those other drivers because I?m in no danger.

Bernard

I really don't like other drivers texting or not, eating, drinking, listening to music, looking at themselves in the mirror, elderly, disabled, whatever, they are not to be trusted, it is called defensive driving, the most minor distraction is all it takes at a high speed to miss something important. I get distracted myself but do try to minimize distractions.

I'm not trying to bad mouth the retired or aging. I do live in an area where aging people are probably a large majority of the population. Many of them have to know everyone elses' business - that is just how it is.

I have a 75 year old mother in law that knows everything about everything and everybody, and you do not tell her she doesn't know something (if you know what is best for you). I also know other people of same age that you can talk to about anything and they will listen to you. I guess the ones that are like my mother in law are the ones that sadly give the entire group a bad name at times because they are the ones that have to bring attention to themselves and be noticed while the others just quietly plug away at whatever life deals them.

My wifes grandmother was same way - my wife hopes and prays she doesn't become that way someday - but who really knows what will happen.

 

[Bernard1599]

Please post, I am curious. I did a quick search for Baltimore and it seems that no homeowner, SFD, MFD, or condo, can do any electrical work period, only licensed electricians and you need a permit for everything-including changing a device or light fixture. Wow. Let us know if this true or not.

Hi Derek,

The following is for Baltimore County not Baltimore City..but it still does not differentiate between single family owners and multifamily owners. The one I am questioning is multifamily. I cannot find anything online regarding Carroll County county at this time.

http://www.baltimorecountymd.gov/Agencies/permits/pdmfaq/pdmfaq_elecinsp.html#q3

"Q. Do I need a permit to do electrical work in my own home?

A. A permit (PDF)is required for all electrical work except for persons making minor repairs and replacements to existing wiring in their own home. Generally, this exception applies to replacing an existing switch, receptacle, or light fixture, but not to extending or installing circuit wiring. Working without a permit is a violation and subject to a civil penalty of $1,000. Information can be obtained by calling Electrical Inspections at 410-887-3960, Monday - Friday, between 7:30 a.m. and 3:30 p.m."

Bernard

 

[jumper]

Hi Derek,

The following is for Baltimore County not Baltimore City..but it still does not differentiate between single family owners and multifamily owners. The one I am questioning is multifamily. I cannot find anything online regarding Carroll County county at this time.

http://www.baltimorecountymd.gov/Agencies/permits/pdmfaq/pdmfaq_elecinsp.html#q3

"Q. Do I need a permit to do electrical work in my own home?

A. A permit (PDF)is required for all electrical work except for persons making minor repairs and replacements to existing wiring in their own home. Generally, this exception applies to replacing an existing switch, receptacle, or light fixture, but not to extending or installing circuit wiring. Working without a permit is a violation and subject to a civil penalty of $1,000. Information can be obtained by calling Electrical Inspections at 410-887-3960, Monday - Friday, between 7:30 a.m. and 3:30 p.m."

Bernard

Thanks, I thought what I found was a bit too draconian.

 

[growler]

Just to clarify my original post, I am speaking about Condo Owners in multifamily buildings doing their own electrical repair work, not licensed electricians. Should they be able to do their own electrical repairs or like kind replacement of electrical devices since a faulty install may put other residents in danger?

Bernard

From what I have seen the owners don't do a lot of electrical repairs (even changing out receptacles).

They hire the first cheap handyman they can find to do the work and this is already illegal.

There is really no way to enforce all these rules other than a total police state and we don't want that.

Condos should have fire walls and smoke detectors and more important many have sprinkler systems so they may be safer than the average home.

 

[Bernard1599]

In New Jersey

Homeowners of condominiums, townhouses, duplexes or any multi-family building, as well as those affiliated with an Association, must hire a New Jersey licensed electrician to perform any electrical work in their home.

IMO, that is a sensible rule.

Bernard

 

[satcom]

From what I have seen the owners don't do a lot of electrical repairs (even changing out receptacles).

They hire the first cheap handyman they can find to do the work and this is already illegal.

There is really no way to enforce all these rules other than a total police state and we don't want that.

Condos should have fire walls and smoke detectors and more important many have sprinkler systems so they may be safer than the average home.

The condo owner may have a tough time, trying to keep inspection officials, from entering the space to inspect, because it has connected units. the single family dwelling is protected from this type of inspection, this is why the meth labs and grow operations stopped using condos, and now rent single family homes.

 

[iwire]

The condo owner may have a tough time, trying to keep inspection officials, from entering the space to inspect, because it has connected units. the single family dwelling is protected from this type of inspection, this is why the meth labs and grow operations stopped using condos, and now rent single family homes.

The condo owner of unit 1 can tell the inspector to go pond sound if the inspector is there for work in unit 2.

 

[satcom]

IMO, that is a sensible rule.

Bernard

And they can inforce the law, because in many states, they have right to entry, for inspection in commercial, and connected dwelling units.

 

[satcom]

The condo owner of unit 1 can tell the inspector to go pond sound if the inspector is there for work in unit 2.

That is how it here for single family dwellings, public and some commercial and connected dwelling units, can be entered if there is a complaint or activity that gives reason for an inspection, but not like that in every state

 

[iwire]

That is how it here for single family dwellings, public and some commercial and connected dwelling units, can be entered if there is a complaint or activity that gives reason for an inspection, but not like that in every state

I really have trouble believing an electrical inspector has the authority in any state to enter a privately owned residence without the owners consent.

If they do I am sure it is related to 'imminent danger to life' or some such wording. Not just because some one might have changed a receptacle without a permit.

Imminent danger is an immediate threat of harm, which varies depending on the context in which it is used. For example, one state statute defines imminent danger in relation to mines as "the existence of any condition or practice in a mine which could reasonably be expected to cause death or serious physical harm to any worker if mine operations were to proceed in the affected area or if workers were to enter the affected area before the condition or practice was eliminated."

 

[Johnmcca]

Where I am, no license is required to be called an elecrtcian. Don't call for an inspection, who will know?

 

[renosteinke]

" can be entered if there is a complaint or activity that gives reason for an inspection"

Yup, that's right .... your inspector should have no qualms about taking that compplaint or reason to a judge and requesting a warrant. That's exactly what warrants are for: a check on the inspector's opinion of 'reasonable.'

Now ... for the bonus question: are these fears of unjustified inspections well founded? I say, without qualification, 'yes.'

Many of you know that last summer I bought a house, a real fix-er-upper. Within days of my taking posession, I had an 'inspector' come by, remarking on my 'remodeling project,' and wanting to come in.

The only problems with his request were:
1) I wasn't doing anything more (at that point) than moving in;
2) I had already met with the city inspector;
3) He wasn't the guy I met;
4) His car had plates from another state;
5) His ID had nothing to do with the building department, and was designed to mislead (The huge red "DHS" letters apparently referred to some 'Dept of Human Services,' rather than "Dept. of Homeland Security); and,
6) His topics of conversation kept changing.

Who was this guy? We'll never know. What's clear is that he tried to gain access where he had no right to be.

 

[satcom]

I really have trouble believing an electrical inspector has the authority in any state to enter a privately owned residence without the owners consent.

If they do I am sure it is related to 'imminent danger to life' or some such wording. Not just because some one might have changed a receptacle without a permit.

Yup, laws that allow fire, and rescue personal to make entry, the AHJ needs a complaint, or some illegal activity, taking place to gain entry, in some states the condo owner may be subject to entry if there a gas leak in one of the units, or an active fire in the connected units, if violations are discovered at the emergency site, they can make a complaint, and then come back for inspections, your single family dwelling, will not have the same exposure to others safety like a connected unit will.