Need help with phone & cable prewire..

[sparkydon]

First a disclaimer..I have close to zero experience with data/phone/cable as the EC company I gained most of my experience from did only high-voltage.

I'm roughing in a custom home, and on the last one I did for the GC I work for, the CATV guy called me to complain I didn't "set the customer up" with the appropriate future, as he turned out to want HDTV and DVR set up after he moved in. My boss told me to keep it cheap so all the HO got was two coax from the roof (satellite cable) to a Leviton box and a single coax homerun to each room required (plus cat5 homeruns for phone.)

Back to the situation. This other house is in a remote location and does not have DSL service through the phone. Satellite will be the only means of internet and cable service. A guy I spoke with who provides CATV service says in order to cover my bases I will need 6 coax from the satellite to my Leviton Data Box, and 3 coax to each location, (for HDTV + internet) plus cat5 for phone. He also said wherever the modem is for the satellite cable, the secondaries on the cat5 can provide the rest of the outlets in the house with the internet...Does this sound like an accurate assesment?)

 

[cadpoint]

First a disclaimer..I have close to zero experience with data/phone/cable as the EC company I gained most of my experience from did only high-voltage.

I'm only going to try to answer the first part of your post @ www.leviton.com , home automation, technical support, learning center, they have a free on-line classes that will over view general applications that you speak of.
Enjoy. :wink:

 

[sparkydon]

thanks..

thanks..

thanks for your response. So do I register in the Ezlearn section of the Learning Center? That's all I see in that Link..

 

[macmikeman]

My question is this, did they provide you a system engineered drawing prior to #1- the bid and #2- the work began, #3- the material ordered. If not, ask why, and tell them you will be happy to go to any length to get the wiring in now for the princely sum of$$$$$$$$$$$ if they sign the CO and pay the good faith deposit money.

 

[brantmacga]

i've been doing a sch. 2 setup; 2x cat5, 2x rg6 in each bedroom and living room.

 

[sparkydon]

My question is this, did they provide you a system engineered drawing prior to #1- the bid and #2- the work began, #3- the material ordered. If not, ask why, and tell them you will be happy to go to any length to get the wiring in now for the princely sum of$$$$$$$$$$$ if they sign the CO and pay the good faith deposit money.

Well, I am a payrollee of a GC who specializes in custom homes. I do not have much input into the end result, except the quality of installation techniques, of which I refuse to falter or lessen ...A major reason I have just accepted a job as a service tech for a regular EC..

Brant..thanks to cadpoints suggestion on Leviton's intricate "ezlearn", I'm starting to actually understand what a schedule 2 install consists of! What I'm not clear on is why this CATV techie told me to run 3 rg6 to each location and 6 from the sat...

 

[stickboy1375]

What I'm not clear on is why this CATV techie told me to run 3 rg6 to each location and 6 from the sat...

Every setup is different and unique, Take my house for example, I have 5 RG6 run to the Dish, 1 of the 5 RG6 is for an off air antenna, then I ran 3 RG6 for my main TV rooms, I'm actually using 4 RG6's at one location, but the point is, if you don't know what someone has in mind, then you'll either be pulling wire that will NEVER be used, or you won't have enough...

 

[LarryFine]

The only way to future-proof is to run conduits to a central point.

 

[Michael15956]

Sparky,

Brant..thanks to cadpoints suggestion on Leviton's intricate "ezlearn", I'm starting to actually understand what a schedule 2 install consists of! What I'm not clear on is why this CATV techie told me to run 3 rg6 to each location and 6 from the sat...

That Leviton site is a good place to start with. I recently have become certified by Leviton.

First once you become certified, Leviton will require a plan from you for all your structured wiring. They will help with the planning if you wish. Then Leviton may even inspect the work and will issue a 20 year warranty on wiring and components. Basic they can become your partner with a project.

There are a few different types of outlet designs, from one to six media that are brought to the outlet. The judgment of the number of media to each outlet and numbers of outlets in a given room is at the discretion of the decision maker(s), homeowner, builder, or telecommunication distribution designer, which will most likely be you.

As to why six runs of cable from the satellite? I have no idea other than maybe having six dishes installed sometime in the future. Basically there are two runs into the home, one from a dish and the other from an off-air antenna.

Hope this helps out a little,

Michael

 

[mdshunk]

As to why six runs of cable from the satellite? .

You can get adaptors to hold 2, 3, and 4 dual LNB's on a single dish.

 

[hbiss]

I wouldn't even TRY to figure this out myself. Every customer has their own requirements and you need input from them in order to know what to do. If this is a spec house about all you can do is generalize. There are no set rules. On top of that technology changes almost daily with this stuff so what might be good today won't be appropriate tomorrow.

Take for instance that all over the air VHF television transmissions will be discontinued in less than a year. FM radio will follow in a few years after that.

The only way around this and to "future proof" is to provide a way for cables to be added or removed after the home is finished.

Leviton and others can say all they want but as far as I'm concerned they are only out to sell a product. You and your customer would be better served staying away from any kind of "structured wiring". They are a waste of time and money. Sooner or later they get ripped out.

Accessable pathways together with cooperation from the customer as well as the people who will be installing the actual services (telco, cable company or sat installer) is the only way to to give your customer what they need.

-Hal

 

[Michael15956]

You can get adaptors to hold 2, 3, and 4 dual LNB's on a single dish.

Thanks Marc.

 

[mdshunk]

You and your customer would be better served staying away from any kind of "structured wiring". They are a waste of time and money.

That's your opinion!

I'm better served by installing each and every gadget the customer wants to pay for, without regard to how long I think it will be in style.

 

[hbiss]

I'm better served by installing each and every gadget the customer wants to pay for, without regard to how long I think it will be in style.

Then what happens to your reputation when the customer has problems? Funny how the blame gets shifted to "the EC who sold me and installed this piece of crap" when it stops doing what the customer want's and they find out they have to spend more $$$$. Who do you think they are going to believe, you or the cable company, sat company, telephone company?

You are the professional and should have superior knowledge about what the customer needs and is best suited for them. Sorry to be blunt but if all you want is sales you are in the wrong business.

-Hal

 

[mdshunk]

You are the professional and should have superior knowledge about what the customer needs and is best suited for them. Sorry to be blunt but if all you want is sales you are in the wrong business.

You're adding in stuff to this situtation that doesn't necessarily happen. You started out talking about a cabling system that may become outdated at some point in the future. Now you're talking about equipment and systems that fail to function as intended. Make no mistake about it... what I install works.

Consequently, without sales, there is no business. :wink: The right installation is a combination of what the customer wants, what the budget will accomodate, and what the EC knows will work. To that end, if what the customer wants will fit in the budget, and I know it will work, I'm happy to install it.

I agree that a raceway or similar conveyance from each jack location to the wiring closet is a superior install, but that doesn't necessarily make it the right thing to do. The customer may better appreciate that money spent on the granite countertops instead.

 

[hbiss]

You're adding in stuff to this situtation that doesn't necessarily happen. You started out talking about a cabling system that may become outdated at some point in the future. Now you're talking about equipment and systems that fail to function as intended.

No, what I'm talking about is at some point the system will become outdated and no be able to do what the customer wants. That could be only a few years down the road with the way things are going. Look at satellite DBS systems. Only a few years ago one LNB was the norm.

I'm sure that after you install a system it functions as intended. Question is will the customer understand when they come out with some new widget that the system they understood would do everything no longer does? Will it be economical to upgrade?

-Hal

 

[mdshunk]

No, what I'm talking about is at some point the system will become outdated and no be able to do what the customer wants.

Are you thinking that most of us serve some market of people that don't already know electronics quickly become outdated?

 

[stickboy1375]

No, what I'm talking about is at some point the system will become outdated and no be able to do what the customer wants.


-Hal

So what are you saying? Don't install anything? Eveything becomes outdated, and a good thing too, it keeps work coming in...

 

[hbiss]

Are you thinking that most of us serve some market of people that don't already know electronics quickly become outdated?

Some people do and others are blinded by technology. The point is though YOU know that. I wouldn't install something that may have a life of 5 years in a house that can be around for 100. Nobody is going to be happy about tearing up their "brand new" 5 year old house. This isn't like an electrical system that can go on for decades.

So what are you saying? Don't install anything?

No, I'm not saying that. All I'm saying is don't listen to companies like Leviton who are only out to sell a product that tries to be one size fits all and plays to a trade that has little experience in this area. Learn and understand each system yourself so that you are competant to recommend options and equipment to your customer and lastly understand that this stuff has a very short lifespan. The customer won't want to have work done to his house in order to make changes to the system. That means providing means to add and remove cables without disturbing the finishes and structure.

This way you still have the future work but you keep the customer happy at the same time.

-Hal

 

[mdshunk]

That means providing means to add and remove cables without disturbing the finishes and structure.

And when you're flatly not permitted to do so, or the budget prohibits this, you just do nothing? Hey, I'm about 95% agreeing with you, but the 5% of disagreement I call reality in residential construction and service. In the end, it's not really my call. I will continue to permit the customer to make bad choices, when presented with all of the compliant options. Put your ego in your pocket, I always say.