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Need help with phone & cable prewire..

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LarryFine said:
The only way to future-proof is to run conduits to a central point.
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. . . as I said before.

The cheapest way to do this is to install a 1-gang (for bedrooms, kitchen, etc) or 2-gang (for main TV room, office, etc) box in each room with a 1" conduit stubbed into the crawl for downstairs rooms or up into the attic for upstairs rooms (or on-slab houses).

For home runs, etc, run a 2" conduit between the crawl and the attic, as well as to the central-point place if there is one. It's not difficult to determine a pathway from any space to any other space.

If you want to get even cheaper, just install LV rings and blank plates for now, with pull-strings through pre-drilled pathways up or down, and stuff with insulation for air-current concerns until needed.
 
Hal in all do fairness, I do not think any of us will ever live to see the day when cat5e and rg6 coax will be antiquated for home residential use. Today cat3 and rg59 still work great for the home user for most applications. Sure there are those extreme cases where some very wealthy homeowner may actually need the capabilities of cat5e or higher, but those are very rare birds who do not normally need to worry about how much does it cost.

Case in point take the CATV industry started in the 50’s using rg59 for home use, and still practical today even with CATV modems. Note it took the CATV industry all those 50-years to be available most every where, well except rural areas.

For a homeowner the next wave in the works is FOIS (fiber optic service) to the house. I am one of the fortunate few who have the service available. The modem is of course is fiber I/O to the network, but all the CPE I/O is RJ/45 and F-coax connectors. Verizon recommends cat5 and rg6 be used, but note cat3 and rg59 will work in most applications. IT will be at least a couple of decades befor FOIS is a household name like CATV.

Just my random thoughts.
 
I'm not necessarily talking about the cables becoming unusable but rather more being added or the existing changed. CAT5e for instance is replacing coax used for video and audio. It might be necessary to add a run from one room to another room.

It will be at least a couple of decades before FOIS is a household name like CATV.

Not if Verizon has it's way. FIOS was overbuilt in this entire area some three years ago and many areas of the country now have it also. They have been using it to replace their aging copper plant for POTS and DSL (it's also been said because they don't have to grant access to the CLECs as they have to do with copper). They have been receiving franchises from each of the municipalities to carry video which they have begun doing. Cablevision, the CATV company in the area has been running negitive ads but Verizon is restricted in it's advertising and can't realy defend itself. If not for that I think it would already be a household word.

As far as premise wiring goes with FIOS there is no difference. Inside each optical terminal are IDC terminals for up to four POTS lines, one ethernet jack and a video "F" connector. About all FIOS does is consolidate the three services (telephone, internet and CATV) into one enclosure.

Connect the regular telephone wiring to the POTS terminal(s) as you would an NID. As always CAT3 is just fine for telephone wiring.

Plug a CAT5e patch cord into the ethernet data jack and connect it directly to your computer or a router. No modem is used.

The "F" connector just takes the place of a CATV drop and gets connected to the CATV wiring as normal. Bandwidth is 55-870 Mhz so avoid using any RG-59 as with any modern CATV system. Verizon is using Motorola set top boxes.

-Hal
 
hbiss said:
I'm not necessarily talking about the cables becoming unusable but rather more being added or the existing changed. CAT5e for instance is replacing coax used for video and audio. It might be necessary to add a run from one room to another room.


-Hal
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This is no different than adding a light fixture or receptacle later on, Yes it's nice to have conduits everywhere, but thats a rare occurrence in most residential settings... I generally end up just snaking them... which brings in more money...
 
At least so far, there's companies making baluns or similar modulator/demodulators to turn anything into something else to utilize what you've already got in place. I suspect that trend to continue.
 
This is no different than adding a light fixture or receptacle later on... there's companies making baluns or similar modulator/demodulators to turn anything into something...

Well, about all I can do is tell you how I do it and give the reasons why. There's more than one way to do this, but some ways are better than others, and some ways won't necessarily put more money into your pocket down the road.

-Hal
 
It's business ... H,W,W,W, Why ... There's money in that wire, Given what they need, is it any differrnet to appling any service, up to code the day it was installed...:rolleyes:
 
..

..

Thanks for the invaluable responses, I feel sorta dumber, and yet a lot more knowledgable! Since posting, I have installed a Leviton SMC, piped orange smurf to attic and crawl locations, and complied with the suggestion of the CATV tech to whom I was reffered. Six RG6 to the S.E. roof, three to each location requiring media and phone, plus all the cat5e runs. I bonded the SMC with a bare #10 ground, and properly demarcated (or at least accurately demarcated) all the runs.

Hbiss, you obviously are sceptical of Leviton's products and how they market themselves to electricians. I would like to hear of some other options of appropriate systems. Seems like if you ripped out the guts of the SMC by Leviton, you still have the bones and raceways to add in any other more superior products...
 
hbiss said:
Well, about all I can do is tell you how I do it and give the reasons why. There's more than one way to do this, but some ways are better than others, and some ways won't necessarily put more money into your pocket down the road.

-Hal
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And this statement is obviously just an opinion...
 
sparkydon, after you do the leviton ezlearn, check w/ your supplier to see if they've setup any 'advanced' classes in your area. i'm going to one tomorrow in fact in tallahassee. it'll probably be just a more detailed look at leviton's product offering and in what ways you can use them, but its a free lunch. :D
 
brantmacga said:
sparkydon, after you do the leviton ezlearn, check w/ your supplier to see if they've setup any 'advanced' classes in your area. i'm going to one tomorrow in fact in tallahassee. it'll probably be just a more detailed look at leviton's product offering and in what ways you can use them, but its a free lunch. :D
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Please let me know how the class was. I would be interested in attending a class in Ohio. I'm certified with Leviton.

Michael
 
I am not a big fan of trying to be a prophet. No one knows what a home owner might want to do next year or next decade, or what piece of equipment that looks like a winner this year becomes outdated, or what kind of wiring goes out of favor.

Look at all the people that had fiber optic cables installed in their homes 10 and 15 years ago. Few, if any, got any real use out of them.

I am a big fan of routing telephone, data, audio, and video cables in PVC (or even the blue corrugated stuff) so they can be replaced later.

Tell the customer what his options are and let him decide how much money he has to spend.
 
Hal, respectfully, I lost track. Can you link to where you said how you do do it?

I know, I'm getting a headache too.

Actually I don't think I did say how I do it. I've talked about structured wiring systems before both here and over at ECN. What I do is what I've done since before structured wiring was even invented. I build each system separately (telephone, data, CATV) on a backboard using standard components that are customary for that particular trade.

Why?

Does the telephone interconnect install a Leviton structured wiring panel? Does the cable company install a Leviton structured wiring panel? Does the computer geek install a Leviton structured wiring panel?

Like it or not these are three separate trades and each have their own way of doing things. Like it or not, you as an EC may install one of these things but, unless you are one of these other trades that's the last you will see of it. The customer isn't going to call you when the cable goes out or the telephones have a problem. You can't expect these other trades to be familiar with this or to stock parts.

So what happens?

The cable guy pulls all the cables out, cuts off the connectors and installs his own, removes any splitters and amplifier and reconnects things the way he wants outside the panel.

The telephone guy comes to install a system. He pulls everything out, curses at the CAT5 cables and punches all the home runs down on a 66 block to connect his equipment.

You tell me what's left.

Like I have been trying to say, these things are a money maker for Leviton and a way for EC's to get involved with these systems. They offer little benefit for the customer except maybe wow appeal. You don't need them or the fancy certificates they give you to hang on your wall.

-Hal
 
Please let me know how the class was. I would be interested in attending a class in Ohio. I'm certified with Leviton.
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i just got back. the instructor was really knowlegeable and it was a good refresher. it was put together by a supply co. i deal w/. i was suprised that the leviton rep wasn't pushing their product as much as he was going over codes and standards, so it was definitely worth the trip. i've been using suttle equip. because of the price, but i got to put my hands on some of the leviton boards and i have to say its a very nice product with any routing option you could want.
 
i've been digging through suttle's website, and they seem to have a lot of the same stuff available that leviton makes, and still at half the price. their net gateways seem a little high @ $104 though. you can buy directly from them too; i like that.
 
brantmacga said:
sparkydon, after you do the leviton ezlearn, check w/ your supplier to see if they've setup any 'advanced' classes in your area. i'm going to one tomorrow in fact in tallahassee. it'll probably be just a more detailed look at leviton's product offering and in what ways you can use them, but its a free lunch. :D
Click to expand...

I certainly will pursue further education into structured wiring once I'm done with the leviton certification. My local supplier is always offering advanced courses.

Hal, I can see where you are coming from. Your input is IMO valid, I'm just not sure how else to economically provide my customers with basic services, when usually that's all they really want..basic services.
 
I'm just not sure how else to economically provide my customers with basic services, when usually that's all they really want..basic services.

That's a great point. You can't get any cheaper than a piece of plywood, a 66 block for the phone wiring, a patch panel for the data wiring and hell, just leave the RG-6 cable or sat home runs unterminated and coiled up right there. The cable or sat company is going to come in and supply and connect everything their way anyway so why should you spend money on it?

-Hal
 
Hal, thanks for the response. :)

hbiss said:
The cable or sat company is going to come in and supply and connect everything their way anyway so why should you spend money on it?
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That's not always the case - sometimes, the cable company completes terminations for one TV, and then they charge the customer extra for more terminations.

At the company I used to work for, the people trimming would be on top of things, wondering how much the cable/phone people did, to try to skip some steps and save a little time. After the first warranty call for "hey, most my TVs don't work" I put a stop to that. It was in the bid, so we would complete the terminations. If the LV guy came in later and cut them all off, well then so be it - but I wasn't going to look stupid for doing things halfway again. :)
 
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