NEVER trust the test/reset buttons on a GFCI

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FionaZuppa said:
how many folks actually test ocpd buttons for gfi afi? i pressed them in my own panel, on the 3rd one it just went hummmmmmm with some smoke, i knocked the main to off. took out the ocpd that was nice and warm and replaced it, sent the ocpd back to eaton, never heard back from them.
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Upon initial installation - pretty much always, and maybe when there is something questionable going on. Very seldom just do a random or suggested monthly test without other reasons.
 
kwired said:
Upon initial installation - pretty much always, and maybe when there is something questionable going on. Very seldom just do a random or suggested monthly test without other reasons.
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other reasons? the suggested "test monthly" is not a good reason?

Underwriters Laboratories (UL) & Canadian Standards Asso. (CSA) agree the best way
to check the operation of a GFCI or AFCI is to push the TEST button. Both suggest the
GFCI be tested monthly, and require a TEST Reminder on adhesive paper and a TEST
Schedule with a minimum of 180 check squares on adhesive paper, be included with
each breaker to be attached to the residential panel.
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FionaZuppa said:
other reasons? the suggested "test monthly" is not a good reason?
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It may be a good reason, but I bet there are very few that get remembered to be checked on such a regular basis, even by electrical professionals, we may however check them as part of our job when there is a trouble issue being worked on but that is typically a one time type of thing and not a regular monthly check.
 
steve66 said:
Yes, that is apparently what is going on, but it would be nice to verify somehow.

Either verify the voltages are what we expect (L-N = 0, L-G = 120, N-G =0), or even better - take the receptacle out and with an ohmmeter verify that the Line slot terminal is still connected to the hot input terminal, but the neutral is open.

You could probably still verify that even thought the receptacle shot craps.
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Good idea. I still havent opened it, but if anyone has any ideas let me know.
 
mbrooke said:
IMO, that test is worthless. Outside of North America GFCIs are actually required to go through a battery of tests to measure response time, correct tripping current and partying of all poles.


Here is a short video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZ4iEtqAWFE
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It is a pretty effective functionality test for the end user to be able to perform and at least verify the thing does function within some of the major design requirements. If end users seldom even use the simple push to test button you think they are going to purchase more complex testing equipment and run all those other tests that they likely don't even understand what they are all about?
 
kwired said:
It is a pretty effective functionality test for the end user to be able to perform and at least verify the thing does function within some of the major design requirements. If end users seldom even use the simple push to test button you think they are going to purchase more complex testing equipment and run all those other tests that they likely don't even understand what they are all about?
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:thumbsup:
 
kwired said:
It is a pretty effective functionality test for the end user to be able to perform and at least verify the thing does function within some of the major design requirements. If end users seldom even use the simple push to test button you think they are going to purchase more complex testing equipment and run all those other tests that they likely don't even understand what they are all about?
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I have Home Inspectors and electricians in mind rather than end users. As is who (occupants) use the test/reset anyways?
 
Update

Update

Ok, so I ohmed out the GFCI. As I and others suspected I think the hot contact failing to separate is the culprit. When taken out the unit was in its tripped state. Neutral screw to neutral slot shows no continuity, hot to neutral shows no continuity while hot screw to hot slot shows zero ohms :eek::blink:


Site is not letting upload the pics probably because they are to big.


With that said what next? Should I send this to Leviton, Bigclive or take it apart myself?
 
JFletcher said:
Wow. Even if it werent wired correctly, I would think a unit just 5 years old would lock out power and not reset at all. I'd send your video to Leviton; perhaps a product recall is in order.
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I've been thinking about that. This is either a 1 in a million fluke or a large number of these are encountering this failure mode. Considering HIs are reporting it as well makes me want to think this needs deeper investigation. The issue here is that if this is a larger problem every one of these units will show no sign of being dangerous.


I remember a decade ago there was actually a recall over a hair dryer LCI doing something similar.
 
mbrooke said:
I have Home Inspectors and electricians in mind rather than end users. As is who (occupants) use the test/reset anyways?
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Electrician I could see doing some deeper testing at times, many HI's haven't a clue as to what GFCI's are all about, they just know where they might be required but don't always know why or even have any idea on some basics of how they function.
 
Tony S said:
No mater what you think, structured testing procedures would have found the fault quickly and given actual figures Mr. Brooke could quote to the manufacturers.

Replace the acronym GFCI with RCD. Through standard test methods I have precise time/current curves for all the RCD’s in my home.
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Dude! your being Un-American! :( Thats why self testing was mandated by UL:


http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/SectionDisplay.jsp?section=66915&minisite=10251



:p:p:)


kwired said:
Electrician I could see doing some deeper testing at times, many HI's haven't a clue as to what GFCI's are all about, they just know where they might be required but don't always know why or even have any idea on some basics of how they function.
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Doesn't mean they can't learn.
 
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