New refrigerator trips AFCI

Status
Not open for further replies.
mbrooke

mbrooke

Batteries Included
Location
United States
Occupation
Technician
ptonsparky said:
…shall be permitted to install a listed outlet branch-circuit-type AFCI at the first outlet..

AFCI protection of the branch circuit is still required, just not that portion in the raceways listed.
Fuse panel to the first outlet in conduit, then AFCI. We put them next to the fuse panel then NM from there to wherever.
Click to expand...

The only reason code mandated AFCIs because of an unreasonable value of 500 amps (0.25ohm Ze) was assumed common at the main panel. OP, this may help:


1627779776612.png
 
ptonsparky

ptonsparky

Tom
Location
NE (9.06 miles @5.9 Degrees from Winged Horses)
Occupation
EC - retired
M

Mdsparky

Member
Location
massachusetts
Occupation
electrician
The house is brand new , power was turned on Friday, it's on an Island over 100 miles from me . The homeowner has done nothing except plug the refrigerator into various properly protected receptacle outlets. I will not remove the AFCI and already told him so . This stance does not go over well with any customer that I have and I have lost customers over this incompatibility issue. I'm hoping beyond hope that after running for 48 hours something warmed up or dried out or some little compatibility fairy showed up and made the problem go away . I remember something about ; "The practical safe guarding..." This is way beyond that and should be but , I'm almost certain , won't be addressed , $$$ has too big an influence.
 
augie47

augie47

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
Siemens has a group that will look at specific appliances and address issues with their AFCIs. I did have the contact # and will try to locate it but you might check with your Siemens distributor.
 
xptpcrewx

xptpcrewx

Power System Engineer
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
Occupation
Licensed Electrical Engineer, Licensed Electrical Contractor, Certified Master Electrician
Mdsparky said:
The house is brand new , power was turned on Friday, it's on an Island over 100 miles from me . The homeowner has done nothing except plug the refrigerator into various properly protected receptacle outlets. I will not remove the AFCI and already told him so . This stance does not go over well with any customer that I have and I have lost customers over this incompatibility issue. I'm hoping beyond hope that after running for 48 hours something warmed up or dried out or some little compatibility fairy showed up and made the problem go away . I remember something about ; "The practical safe guarding..." This is way beyond that and should be but , I'm almost certain , won't be addressed , $$$ has too big an influence.
Click to expand...

I’ve received faulty AFCI’s before. Something worth checking.
 
xptpcrewx

xptpcrewx

Power System Engineer
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
Occupation
Licensed Electrical Engineer, Licensed Electrical Contractor, Certified Master Electrician
ptonsparky said:
Tell us how that solves the OPs issue.
Click to expand...

It doesn’t. He thinks a tmag breaker and AFCI are the same and affords the same level of protection even though they trip on completely different principles. He’s ignoring how the world works to push his point of view. He’s convinced everyone has it wrong except him. You won’t get anything useful out of that kind of mindset.
 
tortuga

tortuga

Code Historian
Location
Oregon
Occupation
Electrical Design
Yawwwn....
yeah, this is a typical AFCI thread, the electrician has not been back to the job yet, we have no photos not even the make / model of the fridge.
The only troubleshooting has been done by a homeowner.
electrofelon said:
I have had zero AFCI trips in the last 7-8 years that were not wiring errors using sq D home line, FWIW.
Click to expand...
Yep same here with SQD and Siemens, Ill add poor quality defective appliances to the trip list.

LarryFine said:
WIFI GFCI, anyone?

AFBL1-W - 15A AFCI with Bluetooth® Connectivity in White - Leviton

White – 15 Amp, 125 Volt Receptacle/Outlet, 20 Amp Feed-Through, Tamper-Resistant, AFCI Receptacle/Outlet with Bluetooth connectivity, back and side wired, nylon wallplate/faceplate, screws and self-grounding clip included
www.leviton.com www.leviton.com
Click to expand...
Larry thats interesting might be worth haveing a few on the van for swapping in to shoot troubble.
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
tortuga said:
Yawwwn....
yeah, this is a typical AFCI thread, the electrician has not been back to the job yet, we have no photos not even the make / model of the fridge.
The only troubleshooting has been done by a homeowner.

Yep same here with SQD and Siemens, Ill add poor quality defective appliances to the trip list.


Larry thats interesting might be worth haveing a few on the van for swapping in to shoot troubble.
Click to expand...
Who is the bad guy to the HO when their expensive refrigerator works fine on a non AFCI protected circuit yet the EC has been out there many times checking out all he can on that refrigerator circuit, maybe replacing the AFCI a couple different times and on top of that the appliance store claims there is nothing wrong with it or even sends out a replacement unit and same tripping still happens? Guess how much the EC got reimbursed for all his trouble for something that wasn't his fault? Can quadruple his reimbursement and he is still unhappy because 4 x 0 is still 0.

Until the appliance manufacturers and AFCI manufacturers are on same page the EC is still the bad guy in all these cases.

Anything with VFD type of motor control is subject to cause problems with both AFCI and GFCI's. Had a washer that wouldn't hold on a GFCI, plugged into a two -three wire cheater adapter and it worked fine, so figured definitely a ground fault type issue. Noticed it would fill but the moment it would start to turn the drum is when it tripped every time. Took back panel off the machine and eventually discovered they have a ground isolation switch that closes when the back cover is removed that isolates the EGC from the motor and any electrically continuous items connected to the motor. Those items remain isolated from human touch as long as the cover is on, and the reason for the switch I guess. My problem was the mounting provisions of that switch was broke and therefore it was not being actuated when the cover is on. So in that case the manufacturer did do something to play better with AFCI/GFCI's but how many appliance repair guys would know what is going on here and tell the customer they need an electrician, then the electrician tells them the appliance has a problem unless it is someone like me that knows if they don't find the problem they will be labeled incompetent. Then I can turn around and prove to them it was the appliance guy that was incompetent if I can pinpoint the problem to be within the appliance.
 
tortuga

tortuga

Code Historian
Location
Oregon
Occupation
Electrical Design
kwired said:
Who is the bad guy
Click to expand...
Its always our fault.
kwired said:
yet the EC has been out there many times checking out
Click to expand...
EC in this thread has not been back to the jobsite.
We have no photos
We dont even know the model of the fridge.
kwired said:
Had a washer that wouldn't hold on a GFCI, plugged into a two -three wire cheater adapter and it worked fine,
Click to expand...
How many volts were between the frame and known good EGG with the adapter?
seems like we should be keeping a sticky thread of known appliances that do this.
 
synchro

synchro

Senior Member
Location
Chicago, IL
Occupation
EE
LarryFine said:
WIFI GFCI, anyone?

AFBL1-W - 15A AFCI with Bluetooth® Connectivity in White - Leviton

White – 15 Amp, 125 Volt Receptacle/Outlet, 20 Amp Feed-Through, Tamper-Resistant, AFCI Receptacle/Outlet with Bluetooth connectivity, back and side wired, nylon wallplate/faceplate, screws and self-grounding clip included
www.leviton.com www.leviton.com
Click to expand...
Leviton AFCI and dual function circuit breakers can also be tripped remotely via the My Leviton app, as well as providing diagnostic info. It seems like that could be an attractive target for hackers. And so electricians might get calls for "nuisance" breaker tripping that's really from hacking of the homeowner's LAN, and it would be more likely in those with poor security.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top