New Work recessed can to surface mounted fixture suggestions

[crispysonofa]

Hello,

I have a situation where there is a new work recessed can in a ceiling sprayed with closed cell foam. There is no attic access to try and remove the can. I was looking for suggestions on how to be able to mount a surface mounted fixture in place of the recessed can? I have not encountered this scenario before and was curious if there were any suggestions or products available to facilitate such an obstacle. Thank you for reading!

 

[jumper]

You should be able to access the wiring through the fixture. Sometimes it is a bit of a fuss but it is doable.

Remove old recess fixture parts or disconnect and push them out of the way.

If it is cable, run it into new fixture.

If not, set box and run to new fixture. Box should be accessible through hole that new fixture covers.

Done this many times.

 

[kwired]

something like this work for you https://www.homedepot.com/p/Westing...r-Pendant-or-Light-Fixtures-0101100/204785596

 

[LarryFine]

something like this work for you https://www.homedepot.com/p/Westing...r-Pendant-or-Light-Fixtures-0101100/204785596

Agree with this.

 

[crispysonofa]

Awesome thank you! I had a thought of using an old work fan safe with the expandable T braces but wanted to explore other options I think that kit looks perfect. Thanks so much for the insight!

 

[crispysonofa]

You should be able to access the wiring through the fixture. Sometimes it is a bit of a fuss but it is doable.

Remove old recess fixture parts or disconnect and push them out of the way.

If it is cable, run it into new fixture.

If not, set box and run to new fixture. Box should be accessible through hole that new fixture covers.

Done this many times.

Curious about how you are securing the box so it is flush with the sheetrock and still in the hole for the recessed fixture? I appreciate the reply.

 

[jumper]

Curious about how you are securing the box so it is flush with the sheetrock and still in the hole for the recessed fixture? I appreciate the reply.

Not sure of your question to answer.

What wiring method goes to recessed light now?

Do you need a box? T brace, box, mud ring if needed.

Will new fixture cover hole from old fixture?

Are these 6” rounds? The ones I removed were a bunch of old 12” squares.

The recessed fixture box is removed with the fixture.

 

[jumper]

As I quickly look at 300.15, I am not seeing how splicing in that housing is totally kosher.

As far as the kit also, not gonna work if old fixture uses any different lamp base, new fixture is bigger than medallion, you need a box to mount new fixture to, and you have that thermal cut out to go bad.

Not really liking it.

 

[kwired]

As I quickly look at 300.15, I am not seeing how splicing in that housing is totally kosher.

As far as the kit also, not gonna work if old fixture uses any different lamp base, new fixture is bigger than medallion, you need a box to mount new fixture to, and you have that thermal cut out to go bad.

Not really liking it.

I've never used one, considered it a time or two but never happened.

Listing might allow it to be used?

 

[jumper]

I've never used one, considered it a time or two but never happened.

Listing might allow it to be used?

See, that is the problem. We usually do not splice in the housing.

Some fixtures may have a compartment in the housing to splice in but not exactly the same thing as what that kit is doing.

IDK. Too much to research right now.

 

[kwired]

See, that is the problem. We usually do not splice in the housing.

Some fixtures may have a compartment in the housing to splice in but not exactly the same thing as what that kit is doing.

IDK. Too much to research right now.

It has an adapter that threads into lamp socket - probably listed that way.

 

[crispysonofa]

Not sure of your question to answer.

What wiring method goes to recessed light now?

Do you need a box? T brace, box, mud ring if needed.

Will new fixture cover hole from old fixture?

Are these 6” rounds? The ones I removed were a bunch of old 12” squares.

The recessed fixture box is removed with the fixture.

I see this is a new work recessed can so it is not coming out without a big hole in the ceiling and patching. I was trying to solve without cutting the rock. The new fixture will cover the trim hole but not a hole from the whole can. I appreciate the insight.

 

[kwired]

I see this is a new work recessed can so it is not coming out without a big hole in the ceiling and patching. I was trying to solve without cutting the rock. The new fixture will cover the trim hole but not a hole from the whole can. I appreciate the insight.

Pull can down, reach through hole and unfasten mounting frame, abandon in the ceiling. Difficulty with that you may be able to sneak sawzall into there and cut the extension brackets and work things loose after that. Brackets may still be attached to ceiling joists, but probably able to swing out of the way.

 

[crispysonofa]

Pull can down, reach through hole and unfasten mounting frame, abandon in the ceiling. Difficulty with that you may be able to sneak sawzall into there and cut the extension brackets and work things loose after that. Brackets may still be attached to ceiling joists, but probably able to swing out of the way.

Can is sprayed in with closed cell foam.

I think I am going to try the westinghouse product and I think it will do well for my needs.

 

[JFletcher]

The house wiring or NM still has to be accessible after you mount your surface mounted fixture, which means it will have to be brought down into the fixture or have a large enough access panel built in to get to it. I believe it is 410.24(B):

"When an electric-discharge luminaire or LED luminaire is surface-mounted over a concealed outlet box and not supported by the outlet box, the luminaire must be provided with suitable openings that permit access to the branch circuit wiring within the outlet box"[410.24(B)]

That Edison adapter is no good - what happens if (when) the NM to wago/wirenut splices in the new work can's j-box fail - that wiring is now hidden. The new work can (where the light bulb/trim goes) is not listed as a jbox, and I also am not keen on using the can of the new work box to secure the new luminaire's EGC.

Imho, you need to be able to get to the built-in j-box of the new work can. since the can is locked in place with spray foam, you're kinda stuck. short of hacking it out of there, cutting from stud to stud, removing the whole thing, and patching the ceiling seems to me the only proper option. if the ceiling is textured or otherwise impossible to match with a patch, I'd cut the can out to gain access to the integral jbox.

As I quickly look at 300.15, I am not seeing how splicing in that housing is totally kosher.

As far as the kit also, not gonna work if old fixture uses any different lamp base, new fixture is bigger than medallion, you need a box to mount new fixture to, and you have that thermal cut out to go bad.

Not really liking it.

plus all this too.

 

[crispysonofa]

How can they even sell this product?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gT7BBqjyq9g

Would the wiring not be accessible when the fixture is removed?

 

[JFletcher]

How can they even sell this product?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gT7BBqjyq9g

Would the wiring not be accessible when the fixture is removed?

The fixture is mounted to the can housing, which has been (legally?) converted to a j-box. Since it is supported by the can/box, I guess that's the difference.

What I was thinking about was mounting a surface-mount fixture, that is secured to the ceiling drywall, like a 2x4' fluorescent fixture. Those cannot be mounted over a jbox w/o access to the branch wiring.

The type of light (pendant) the video shows, I guess those are legal if the mfg made a video showing the install. Even if it's not quite kosher, having your can housing locked in by spray foam so that the integral j-box is inaccessible is definitely not kosher, so might as well get that kit if you can use it.