nolox or not oxide inhibitor questions

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michael mckague

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Location
connectitcut
My boss said today "I heard that there is some electrical terminals out there that dont require an oxide inhibitor when installed with AL conductors". Has anyone heard of this? Also, do the bugs that come with a small bead of the yellow stuff(sometimes only on one side) enough to do the job? I always try to get a coat all the way around or is that going overboard with the goop.
 
S

socalelect

Member
Location
so. cal
i was taught to always use the oxidation inhibitor with AL conductors in box type terminals due to the fact it surrounds the conductor strands and blocks out oxygen ( the cause behind it all ) . i dont belive NEC actually "requires" it on AL . heck i dunno maybee it has something to due with the fact that most of the guys i learned from are dead now ( old age) :?

heres a quote direct from southwire
Oxide inhibitor use is considered good workmanshipfor all aluminum or copper terminations. The oxideinhibitor provides a barrier at the connection pointthat prevents moisture and other potentially damaging​
environmental substances
 
goldstar

goldstar

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
I also use it on any meter installation. I figure why take the chance. BTW, did anyone know that you're supposed to rough-up the AL wire with a wire brush before using the anti-oxident ? Something I recently found out.:slaphead:
 
V

Volta

Senior Member
Location
Columbus, Ohio
goldstar said:
I also use it on any meter installation. I figure why take the chance. BTW, did anyone know that you're supposed to rough-up the AL wire with a wire brush before using the anti-oxident ? Something I recently found out.:slaphead:
Click to expand...

As far as I know, as soon as the fresh AL is exposed the oxide starts to form. So we really should wire-brush the inhibitor directly.

Messy though . . .
 
K8MHZ

K8MHZ

Senior Member
Location
Michigan. It's a beautiful peninsula, I've looked
Occupation
Electrician
goldstar said:
I also use it on any meter installation. I figure why take the chance. BTW, did anyone know that you're supposed to rough-up the AL wire with a wire brush before using the anti-oxident ? Something I recently found out.:slaphead:
Click to expand...

To make the most out of the application, not only do you make sure the metal is shiny/bright before application, but you also make sure to 'work in' the anti-oxidant with a wire brush, basically meaning you brush the metal under the compound so no oxygen at all gets to the freshly exposed metal.

Using the above technique with flux and solder, it's possible to stick solder to cast iron. The only reason solder doesn't stick to all metals is that solder won't stick to oxides.

I can work up a spot on cast iron and lay a thick tinning on it then solder a tinned copper wire to it and it will stick if done correctly. Of course, the amount of time it takes and the resultant fragile connection makes it nothing more than a parlor trick, but it can be done. Working the compound in with the wire brush makes all the difference in the world.
 
iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Cow said:
How's that?

I'm reading the instructions for Burndy Penetrox and it says apply to bright and clean aluminum. That's all. Pretty hard to screw that up.
Click to expand...

Grab a bottle of the product, they ask that you wire-brush it in.

That is a pain and messy.
 
goldstar

goldstar

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Cow said:
How's that?

I'm reading the instructions for Burndy Penetrox and it says apply to bright and clean aluminum. That's all. Pretty hard to screw that up.

http://www.galco.com/techdoc/burn/pena134_cp.pdf
Click to expand...
Easy to apply:
1. Scratch brush the conductor surfaces until
bright and clean.
2. Immediately apply PENETROX? to the
conductive surfaces.
3. For EHV applications, remove all excess
PENETROX? after installation is complete.
 
C

Cow

Senior Member
Location
Eastern Oregon
Occupation
Electrician
goldstar said:
Easy to apply:
1. Scratch brush the conductor surfaces until
bright and clean.
2. Immediately apply PENETROX™ to the
conductive surfaces.
3. For EHV applications, remove all excess
PENETROX™ after installation is complete.
Click to expand...

We already know new wire is bright and clean, so what then....? You think I still need to scratch brush it?

iwire said:
Grab a bottle of the product, they ask that you wire-brush it in.

That is a pain and messy.
Click to expand...

I see nothing about applying the product with a brush?
 
K8MHZ

K8MHZ

Senior Member
Location
Michigan. It's a beautiful peninsula, I've looked
Occupation
Electrician
Cow said:
We already know new wire is bright and clean, so what then....? You think I still need to scratch brush it?



I see nothing about applying the product with a brush?
Click to expand...

Gardner Benders' Ox-Gard has it on the bottle:

Instructions: Apply Ox-Gard™ to wires and work in with wire brush or emery cloth, apply liberally to both connector and conductor, assemble joint following connector manufacturer's instructions.
Click to expand...
 
stickboy1375

stickboy1375

Senior Member
Location
Litchfield, CT
Aluminum Wire Termination

Let me give you some background on aluminum terminations. Aluminum conductors in the past were made with AA13000 series alloy. This particular alloy was rather unstable and created problems with terminations. With the AA 13000 alloy, it was necessary to take steps to combat problems caused by cold flow, heat expansion and oxidation.

For several code cycles now the NEC has specified AA8000 aluminum compound for conductors. This compound is quite stable and does not experience the problems of the older compound.

Aluminum terminations are evaluated by UL and the evaluations are done without the use of oxide inhibitor. UL in their “White” book (General Information for Electrical Equipment), 2002 edition has the following information: Page 133, Wire Connectors and Soldering Lugs (ZMVV) it states: “Conductor Termination Compound-Some connectors are shipped pre-filled with conductor termination compound (antioxidant compound). For non-prefilled connectors, conductor termination compound may be used if recommended by the connector manufacturer as preliminary preparation of the conductor. Wire brushing of the conductor may also be performed if recommended”.

All building wire is required to be manufactured with the AA8000 series alloy. However, some single use USE and some overhead type conductors may be manufactured with other alloys. This is the reason that you will see connectors used for overhead conductors sometimes pre-filled with oxide inhibitor.

In most cases it is not necessary to use oxide inhibitor on aluminum terminations, unless the manufacturer specifically requires this in his instructions. These instructions will accompany the product.

I realize that this is not exactly the information you were requesting. However, I do hope I have been of some assistance. If you desire more information please do not hesitate to contact me.

You can contact me at (307) 638-0307. You can contact UL at (800) 595-9844.

Mike Forister, NEMA

March 11, 2003

http://www.mikeholt.com/mojonewsarchive/NEC-HTML/HTML/AluminumWireTermination~20030411.htm
 
iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
K8MHZ said:
Really? Where in the NEC does it say that?
Click to expand...

It moves around, but from 2008

310.14 Aluminum Conductor Material. Solid aluminum
conductors 8, 10, and 12 AWG shall be made of an AA-
8000 series electrical grade aluminum alloy conductor material.
Stranded aluminum conductors 8 AWG through 1000
kcmil marked as Type RHH, RHW, XHHW, THW, THHW,
THWN, THHN, service-entrance Type SE Style U and SE
Style R shall be made of an AA-8000 series electrical grade
aluminum alloy conductor material.
Click to expand...

2011

310.106 Conductors.
(A) Minimum Size of Conductors. The minimum size of
conductors shall be as shown in Table 310.106(A), except
as permitted elsewhere in this Code.

(B) Conductor Material. Conductors in this article shall
be of aluminum, copper-clad aluminum, or copper unless
otherwise specified.
Solid aluminum conductors 8, 10, and 12 AWG shall be
made of an AA-8000 series electrical grade aluminum alloy
conductor material. Stranded aluminum conductors 8 AWG
through 1000 kcmil marked as Type RHH, RHW, XHHW,
THW, THHW, THWN, THHN, service-entrance Type SE
Style U and SE Style R shall be made of an AA-8000 series
electrical grade aluminum alloy conductor material.
Click to expand...
 
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