Now THIS was funny...........

[iwire]

It took me years before I would do the finger test. I had seen it done many times but never had the guts to try it. About 10 years ago on a resi remodel I finally stepped up. Using a finger and thumb on the calloused ends you can't feel a thing. When you press down you can feel the 60 cycle buzz. The harder you press to more you feel it.

That is the most irresponsible thing I have ever seen posted on this forum.

Again I say you should not have anything to do with the training of electricians. But feel free to injure yourself.

 

[jrannis]

That is the most irresponsible thing I have ever seen posted on this forum.

Again I say you should not have anything to do with the training of electricians. But feel free to injure yourself.

OK Bob,
Lets pretend that we never did it.
It can be a don't ask don't tell thing.
I had an apprentice that had very calloused hands and could not feel 120volts.
I didn't know his little secret at the time.
Me: "Eugene, is that hot?"
Eugene: "No"
Me: "#%@&%*"

 

[iwire]

OK Bob,
Lets pretend that we never did it.
It can be a don't ask don't tell thing.
I had an apprentice that had very calloused hands and could not feel 120volts.

I am not sure what you trying to point out?

That people can touch 120 VAC? Yes I bet everyone of us has survived being hit with 120 many times.

But that does not mean we should not work safer.

When I came into the trade in the early 80s I was taught immediately to work it hot. We drilled live service buss bars on 3000 amp service gear, made up power company connections in old undersized metal cans with the insulation falling off the conductors. I just accepted it as part of the job. Then I moved to a company with a great safety program and I learned that there are rules that say working hot is not just part of the job. I also had kids and started rethinking about what my absence from this world would mean to others.

Electricians are not the only ones that have had to change with the times.

All three of these guys are tied off to the beam.

http://www.smugmug.com/community/Construction/keyword/steel#42541071_LbHGJ

 

[220/221]

There might be someone on this forum that is inexperienced
and just might try your method and die. Do you realize that?
If you want to test live circuits by gambling with your life that's your
choice, But come on man, don't teach it.

Do I have to add "kids, don't try this at home" to my disclaimer?

There are a lot of people hypocritical people in the world and more than a few here. It has been strongly suggested in PM's to me that I keep my opinions to myself and to pretend that the NEC is always complied with. I have trouble doing this and tend to speak my mind.

I have learned how to take it to the limit sometimes and I would bet that there is discussuion about closing this thread because of my irresponsible posting. If you take the time to read my thoughts you will realize that's what they are......my thoughts on the matter...my input into the discussion. Unlike some others, I realize that there is more than one right way and more than one point of view.


If you want to get really philosophical about it, that's the reason we are so fortunate to have been born in the US. We are allowed to think and speak for ourselves. To be allowed to make our own desicions. Guidelines are necesssary and very helpful, but when you legislate every single step of our lives, you take away the ability to make decisions. You take away the ability to think for ourselves.

Too deep? :grin:

 

[Karl H]

220/221 it has been my experience that guys that have the same
disregard for safety, as you . Tend to force their apprentices
to work in a very unsafe manner that is completely unnecessary.

 

[peter d]

220/221 it has been my experience that guys that have the same
disregard for safety, as you . Tend to force their apprentices
to work in a very unsafe manner that is completely unnecessary.

That's true Karl, I used to work for someone who always worked live, even changing switches out in a home when the power could have easily been turned off. :roll: He insisted I work live too.

Now that I'm older and wiser and I know what OSHA rules protect the worker, I don't subject myself to that danger.

 

[Karl H]

That's true Karl, I used to work for someone who always worked live, even changing switches out in a home when the power could have easily been turned off. :roll: He insisted I work live too.

Now that I'm older and wiser and I know what OSHA rules protect the worker, I don't subject myself to that danger.

When I was a apprentice I worked for a guy that wouldn't turn anything
off either. I installed over 150 277v switches in a hosptial energized.
I tried to explain to this guy it scared the s**t out of me and I could
do it a lot faster if it wasn't hot. I was just ridiculed and went back to
installing switches.

 

[daleuger]

When I was a apprentice I worked for a guy that wouldn't turn anything
off either. I installed over 150 277v switches in a hosptial energized.
I tried to explain to this guy it scared the s**t out of me and I could
do it a lot faster if it wasn't hot. I was just ridiculed and went back to
installing switches.

I still see that every now and then. :-?:-?

 

[220/221]

220/221 it has been my experience that guys that have the same
disregard for safety, as you . Tend to force their apprentices
to work in a very unsafe manner that is completely unnecessary.

First, it's not fair to put me in the same catagory as anyone you ever met.

I would never force anyone to do anything. It's not my style. If you are trying to tell me that when you troubleshoot a circuit like the one in question here, that you don't work it hot, I am telling you I don't believe you.

There are times to shut it off and there are times to leave it on. You need to use your judgement to decide. If you are unable to make that call the default decision is to turn it off. Rocket science it aint.

I installed over 150 277v switches in a hosptial energized.

And you are commenting on MY didregard for safety? You are the one being reckless. My situation is nowhere close to yours.

Of course you are going to blame it on your boss, that's simple human nature, but the bottom line is that you KNEW it was dangerous and did it anyway. Taking responsibility for your actions is an important step in manhood so don't be so quick to point fingers.

Don't ever stop using your brain, you might need it some day.:wink:

 

[iwire]

I would never force anyone to do anything. It's not my style.

Your the boss, the guy that signs their checks, the guy that makes the day good or bad for them, they will follow your lead without you having to say "Do this hot"

If you are trying to tell me that when you troubleshoot a circuit like the one in question here, that you don't work it hot, I am telling you I don't believe you

Not going to tell you that, it would not be true, I can tell you that I do get out the class 00 gloves and use them when needed. They nothing like linemen gloves, you can work with them. No not as easy as bare hands and yes your hands will be drenched with sweat but you will not get that shock that bloodys your nose. :smile:.

Of course you are going to blame it on your boss, that's simple human nature, but the bottom line is that you KNEW

If you try to tell me that if one of your guys refused to do what you told them would not make them a marked man I will not believe that either.

 

[220/221]

If you try to tell me that if one of your guys refused to do what you told them would not make them a marked man I will not believe that either.

Believe it. Your perception of me is one dimensional because you only know one side of me. You only know what is written in here.

If someone told me they didn't want to do something because they felt it was dangerous, there is no question that I would respect them for being honest. If there is ever a dangerous task at hand, I am the one stepping up. I have said more than once, "Stand back, I've lived a full life". Also, there are many tasks that I will no longer do but simple troubleshooting isn't one of them.

I did have a guy who refused to dig/shovel dirt one time. He said "I didn't sign on to be a landscaper". He was a great guy and I still see him socially, but was certainly a marked man.

PS. He is now a landscaper...true story :grin:

 

[bradleyelectric]

Not going to tell you that, it would not be true, I can tell you that I do get out the class 00 gloves and use them when needed. They nothing like linemen gloves, you can work with them. No not as easy as bare hands and yes your hands will be drenched with sweat but you will not get that shock that bloodys your nose. :smile:.

Where and how often are these gloves tested?

 

[nunu161]

you can test the rubber gloves yourself by blowing into them and flip them really quick to check for pinholes if they hold air they should be good and replace the leather protectors as you would any gloves(rips,worn,etc.)

There are places you can get them tested though i know in my area there is a bucket truck factory that will test them. you might be able to send them out to the manufacturer for testing as well. How often are they supposed to be checked i have no clue

 

[LarryFine]

I have done the occasional residential switch or receptacle replacement hot, but not in a long time. The worst part to me was always putting the device back into the box.

I did have a guy who refused to dig/shovel dirt one time. He said "I didn't sign on to be a landscaper".

PS. He is now a landscaper...true story :grin:

I don't care who y'are, that's funny right there!

 

[nunu161]

i had to do some landscaping one time the jman drove the bucket truck through the lawn and tore up the grass so the next day i had to take the stake body get dirt and fill the ruts and plant new grass learned a lot that day...

 

[Karl H]

First, it's not fair to put me in the same catagory as anyone you ever met.

I would never force anyone to do anything. It's not my style. If you are trying to tell me that when you troubleshoot a circuit like the one in question here, that you don't work it hot, I am telling you I don't believe you.

There are times to shut it off and there are times to leave it on. You need to use your judgement to decide. If you are unable to make that call the default decision is to turn it off. Rocket science it aint.



And you are commenting on MY didregard for safety? You are the one being reckless. My situation is nowhere close to yours.

Of course you are going to blame it on your boss, that's simple human nature, but the bottom line is that you KNEW it was dangerous and did it anyway. Taking responsibility for your actions is an important step in manhood so don't be so quick to point fingers.

Don't ever stop using your brain, you might need it some day.:wink:

When it comes to trouble-shooting, yes you have to work
on or near energized circuits sometimes. I teach my apprentices to
use Meters and not their fingers as you suggested. I also teach
my apprentices how to work safely. I have a lot of tricks for
trouble-shooting that I've learned over the years that are very
unsafe and never will I teach my apprentices those methods,nor
do I apply them anymore.

As for changing out the live switches. I was 18 and a apprentice
working for a man that had no regard for my safety or anyone else
on the crew for that matter. BTW he died from falling from a ladder
after getting hit working on an energized pole light three years after I
left the company. It only takes one bad decision, and you won't be going
home upright that day. Be safe out there!

 

[iwire]

Where and how often are these gloves tested?

They have not been tested but they are less then 1 year old.

Fault me for not having my gloves tested.

Do you even own any?

 

[iwire]

Believe it. Your perception of me is one dimensional because you only know one side of me. You only know what is written in here.

Well that is true and you have been doing a great job of building my perceptions.

If someone told me they didn't want to do something because they felt it was dangerous, there is no question that I would respect them for being honest.

I will take your word for it.

If there is ever a dangerous task at hand, I am the one stepping up.

Which is exactly what I was pointing out, they will follow your lead. You show them your total disregard for the rules and they will behave the same.

 

[220/221]

I teach my apprentices to
use Meters and not their fingers as you suggested

Again, you are putting words in my mouth. That is what turns a discussion into an arguement.

You show them your total disregard for the rules and they will behave the same.

I don't show a total disregard for safety. I make decisions based on the situation.

 

[76nemo]

Let's be honest here, and maybe someone can start a poll if this has gone too far. How many of you sport proper footwear, or do you just wear what feels comfortable??? I'm not saying I wear full rubbers, but I do wear low-cut shoes that are rated.