Nope. You might want to get out a codebook and read the definition of receptacle.
Number of outlets allowed on one circuit for office
- Thread starter Stevenfyeager
- Start date
- Status
Nope. You might want to get out a codebook and read the definition of receptacle.
- Location
- Connecticut
- Occupation
- Engineer
Yup.
Art 100: Receptacle Outlet: AN OUTLET where one or more receptacles are installed.
A duplex receptacle two receptacles installed on a single outlet.
- Location
- Connecticut
- Occupation
- Engineer
I'll take that bet.
OK, I'll save you guys the trouble.
Outlet. A point on the wiring system at which current is taken
to supply utilization equipment. (CMP-1)
Receptacle. A contact device installed at the outlet for the
connection of an attachment plug, or for the direct connection
of electrical utilization equipment designed to mate with the
corresponding contact device. A single receptacle is a single
contact device with no other contact device on the same yoke.
A multiple receptacle is two or more contact devices on the
same yoke. (CMP-18)
Outlet. A point on the wiring system at which current is taken
to supply utilization equipment. (CMP-1)
Receptacle. A contact device installed at the outlet for the
connection of an attachment plug, or for the direct connection
of electrical utilization equipment designed to mate with the
corresponding contact device. A single receptacle is a single
contact device with no other contact device on the same yoke.
A multiple receptacle is two or more contact devices on the
same yoke. (CMP-18)
I've already responded.
- Location
- Connecticut
- Occupation
- Engineer
Keep going....
Receptacle Outlet. AN OUTLET where one or more receptacles are installed (CMP-18).
- Location
- Connecticut
- Occupation
- Engineer
You're response was incomplete
- Location
- Connecticut
- Occupation
- Engineer
Regarding unteachable...take a look in the mirror.
If you have to ignore the Code definitions to make your point, your point isn't very good.
Read the definition of Receptacle Outlet. A duplex receptacle is one outlet, per definition.
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
I debated whether to get back into this subject. But my 2 hour meeting was cancelled, and I have some time to kill. I do not agree with a limit of 13. I think Larry's post 21 might be saying the same thing. But 220 is about calculations and 210 is about circuits.
Here is some supporting evidence: 220.11 explicitly says that branch circuits that supply lighting or appliances must be provided to supply the calculated load IAW 220.10. This is the only place I can find that ties 220 and 210 together. It does not mention circuits that supply receptacles. I infer that a branch circuit that supplies receptacles need not be based on the calculated load of 180 VA per duplex.
Most of the buildings I design have far fewer than 13 receptacles per circuit. That is a design choice. Bottom line: if you wish to tell me that there is an absolute limit of 13, I will require you to not include article 220 in your reasoning.,
Here is some supporting evidence: 220.11 explicitly says that branch circuits that supply lighting or appliances must be provided to supply the calculated load IAW 220.10. This is the only place I can find that ties 220 and 210 together. It does not mention circuits that supply receptacles. I infer that a branch circuit that supplies receptacles need not be based on the calculated load of 180 VA per duplex.
Most of the buildings I design have far fewer than 13 receptacles per circuit. That is a design choice. Bottom line: if you wish to tell me that there is an absolute limit of 13, I will require you to not include article 220 in your reasoning.,
FionaZuppa
Senior Member
- Location
- AZ
- Occupation
- Part Time Electrician (semi retired, old) - EE retired.
So, in the 1st definition, that's like hard wiring the microwave or drill press in the box where the power is at, in that box is the point at which current is taken.
In the 2nd definition, the receptacle is not really a "thing" because it's a piece of the yoke, even snap-in panel mount recepts are mounting onto the yoke. Now, with some recepts on yoke the rececpt itself may be wired directly to the power, like a panel mounted recept that has pigtails. Other yokes like most resi NEMA 5's the power is connected via the yoke. Yeah, almost the same thing, but not the same. Does not matter, the 2nd definition says "installed at the outlet", so if the receptacle is not the outlet, then what is? It's the same as it is in the 1st definition, the point at which power (they use current) is taken. "Taken" only has one context, taken from the BC WIRING.
Last edited:
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Perhaps if I split a hair on this discussion, we can find a common interpretation. A duplex receptacle installed in a standard 2x4 box is, at the same time both, (1) Two "outlets," and (1) One "receptacle outlet."
Sadly, the definition of "receptacle outlet" including the notion of things installed at an outlet leaves open the interpretation that the "outlet" is the 2x4 box. That tends to contradict the definition of "outlet," which speaks of where current is taken. You don't take current from the box. You take current from something inside the box, and (arguably) the box is not on the "premises wiring system." So perhaps a revision to the code is in order.
David, would you agree with this?
FionaZuppa
Senior Member
- Location
- AZ
- Occupation
- Part Time Electrician (semi retired, old) - EE retired.
I don't think that was the inference in the MH pic. It only shows max VA via ocpd x voltage, then divided that out by 180VA using duplex recepts for that example. It could have been triplex yoke, thus you would still have 13 yokes x 3recept/yoke = 39 receptacles across 7 (SEVEN) outlets, each yoke still only 180VA. So to infer the VA has anything to do with # of recepts on the yoke seems to be false, false by NEC verbiage, and false by the MH example given.
I still want to know how all this applies to MWBC's.
Last edited:
FionaZuppa
Senior Member
- Location
- AZ
- Occupation
- Part Time Electrician (semi retired, old) - EE retired.
Whaaaaa, no.
That's a duplex yoke (two receptacles of your fav NEMA "R") installed at one outlet. Want even more magic dust to prove it, try installing a yoke at more than one outlet. Bammn. But you can have many yokes installed at one outlet.
And no, it does not need to be in a std 2x4 box.
Cheers.
Last edited:
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
The Article 100 definition of a Receptacle seems to support David's viewpoint.
FionaZuppa
Senior Member
- Location
- AZ
- Occupation
- Part Time Electrician (semi retired, old) - EE retired.
What viewpoint is that?
It says "at the outlet". "The contact device" is one or more receptacles, usually on a yoke, by which you physically grab in your hand, along with wire caps and screwdriver as needed, you take that to some hole in the wall or location someplace on Earth, usually a mounted box (NEC requires it), and you literally wire the yoke to the BC wiring. It is in fact that junction point by which the yoke, which has receptacles on it ("the contact device"), takes power (NEC word "current") at a point on the BC wiring, aka The Outlet.
FionaZuppa
Senior Member
- Location
- AZ
- Occupation
- Part Time Electrician (semi retired, old) - EE retired.
Nope, it's not.
Then what is a triplex yoke? 1.5 outlets?
What would a uno-plex yoke be, 0.5 outlet?
How about 100 receptacles on 20 yokes in one box at the end of one 30A BC, how many outlets are there? Wait for it... wait for it..... ONE.
You guys crack me up.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
This is what David said:
13 outlets which is supported by the definition of a receptacle.
FionaZuppa
Senior Member
- Location
- AZ
- Occupation
- Part Time Electrician (semi retired, old) - EE retired.
Ah, I see the confusion, it's literally just bad grammar and/or bad chocie of wording.
Let me break it down:
It says "Receptacle Outlet". The item of focus is "Outlet", not "receptacle". It's describing an OUTLET where a receptacle (usually a yoke) is installed. So when you put a receptacle on yoke at an outlet you get magic, a "Receptacle Outlet", yes, it literally means at that point (that magical place where power is taken from the BC wiring) there is one or more receptacles, with no tie (none) to duplex yoke.
Does this help?
Last edited:
FionaZuppa
Senior Member
- Location
- AZ
- Occupation
- Part Time Electrician (semi retired, old) - EE retired.
Which is wrong. Read my post behind this one.
That MH pic is 13 duplex yokes across 7 outlets. Duplex, triplex, umpt-plex, makes no diff at all. An "outlet" has nothing (nothing) to do with receptacles or yokes. The wagon just circled back around again.
sorry to break the yoke on this sunnyside up.......
Cheers.
- Status