Number of outlets allowed on one circuit for office

[Dennis Alwon]

(I) Receptacle Outlets. Except as covered in 220.14(J) and
(K), receptacle outlets shall be calculated at not less than
180 volt-amperes for each single or for each multiple receptacle
on one yoke.

Fiona, it seems to me that you are trolling. There is no way that you can legitimately argue that a yoke is 180v.... especially with the section above. My last post on this thread as it is bordering on ridiculous

 

[FionaZuppa]

Fiona, it seems to me that you are trolling. There is no way that you can legitimately argue that a yoke is 180v.... especially with the section above. My last post on this thread as it is bordering on ridiculous

No Dennis, not trolling. What makes you say that?

What do you mean the part in bold? I think I clarified that in post #53.
180VA is the min # used in the math, using that min # will yield the most # of yokes allowed. Would make no diff if it were one yoke per outlet, or all the yokes at same outlet. And I certainly did not say the yoke itself is only allowed 180VA, that's only a # used to determine how many per BC.

I do appreciate folks challenging me, but saying I am trolling is a bit of a stretch. I hope at least the readers got some new info, or perhaps now know their understanding of things was a bit askew.

You know for a long time I am no big fan of how NFPA 70 is written, or the verbiage it uses in many areas of the codebook. It only gets better with time, right.

Cheers.

 

[david luchini]

Perhaps if I split a hair on this discussion, we can find a common interpretation. A duplex receptacle installed in a standard 2x4 box is, at the same time both, (1) Two "outlets," and (1) One "receptacle outlet."

I don't see how a duplex receptacle can be one "receptacle outlet" and two "outlets" at the same time.
That would be contradictory to the definition of

Perhaps if I split a hair on this discussion, we can find a common interpretation. A duplex receptacle installed in a standard 2x4 box is, at the same time both, (1) Two "outlets," and (1) One "receptacle outlet."

Sadly, the definition of "receptacle outlet" including the notion of things installed at an outlet leaves open the interpretation that the "outlet" is the 2x4 box. That tends to contradict the definition of "outlet," which speaks of where current is taken. You don't take current from the box. You take current from something inside the box, and (arguably) the box is not on the "premises wiring system." So perhaps a revision to the code is in order.

David, would you agree with this?

I don't see how, by definition, a duplex receptacle could be both two "outlets" and one "receptacle outlet." It would be contradictory to the Code definitions of each.

Nor do I see the definition of receptacle outlet suggesting that the outlet is the "box."

An outlet is a "point on the wiring system..." so

Which is wrong. Read my post behind this one.

That MH pic is 13 duplex yokes across 7 outlets. Duplex, triplex, umpt-plex, makes no diff at all. An "outlet" has nothing (nothing) to do with receptacles or yokes. The wagon just circled back around again.

sorry to break the yoke on this sunnyside

Nope, it's not.
Then what is a triplex yoke? 1.5 outlets?
What would a uno-plex yoke be, 0.5 outlet?

How about 100 receptacles on 20 yokes in one box at the end of one 30A BC, how many outlets are there? Wait for it... wait for it..... ONE.
You guys crack me up.

Yes it is.
A triplex yoke is one outlet.
A uniplex yoke is one outlet.
100 receptacles on 20 yokes in one box is 20 outlets.

Each yoke device connects to a separate point on the wiring system.

Break the tabs on the duplex receptacle and you could have multiple outlets on the same yoke.

 

[FionaZuppa]

A triplex yoke is one outlet.
A uniplex yoke is one outlet.
100 receptacles on 20 yokes in one box is 20 outlets.

Each yoke device connects to a separate point on the wiring system.

Break the tabs on the duplex receptacle and you could have multiple outlets on the same yoke.

Not correct (says me, you may think otherwise, so be it)

Say I have a 4gang box, the end of the BC comes in, every duplex (strapped) yoke is pigtailed, and they all tie to the BC wires via a wire cap, one white, one black, one green. Where is the point at which the yokes take power from the BC wiring? All the yokes take power from exactly the same point, it's one Outlet.

In simpler terms, if there's only one BC in a box, there can only be one outlet there. And get this, a BC that is in a box does not need to be a outlet at all, could just be a jbox that extends the BC wiring.

The definition is simple and clear, a Outlet is the point at which power is taken from the BC wiring.

Here's a twist. Can one box be more than one outlet? Of course it can, if more than one BC is in that box, and you are pulling power from each BC at that point. Dual gang box, two duplex yokes, one on Ckt-A, the other on Ckt-B. One box, two outlets.

The NEC verbiage does not support the context that an "Outlet is the thing that pulls power from the BC wiring". You would mess up the whole codebook if that were the case. The NEC verbiage supports the definition as just the point at which power is pulled off of the BC wiring.

It's simple to me.

 

[charlie b]

Let's start over. Is the box itself the outlet or not?

 

[LarryFine]

Let's start over. Is the box itself the outlet or not?

I say the box's internal volume is the outlet.

 

[electrofelon]

Let's start over. Is the box itself the outlet or not?

I say the box's internal volume is the outlet.

so what about a two gang box, with a receptacle in one gang and, i dont know, something else that is not a receptacle in the other gang, maybe a switch with a pilot light. Is that entire box an receptacle outlet or just the one gang?

 

[LarryFine]

so what about a two gang box, with a receptacle in one gang and, i dont know, something else that is not a receptacle in the other gang, maybe a switch with a pilot light. Is that entire box an receptacle outlet or just the one gang?

The whole shebang. No matter how many devices or circuits.

 

[electrofelon]

The whole shebang. No matter how many devices or circuits.

So it is a receptacle outlet, and a regular outlet at the same time? That is the way I see it.

 

[FionaZuppa]

Let's start over. Is the box itself the outlet or not?

It doesn't have to be. A box that is a jbox may or may not be an outlet, all depends on if power is being pulled off a BC from inside that box.

 

[LarryFine]

All receptacle outlets are outlets, but not all outlets are receptacle outlets.

A duplex receptacle is two receptacles on a single yoke.

 

[FionaZuppa]

I say the box's internal volume is the outlet.

There could be 5 outlets in that box if 5 BC's are there and power is being pulled out of each BC.

 

[FionaZuppa]

All receptacle outlets are outlets, but not all outlets are receptacle outlets.

A duplex receptacle is two receptacles on a single yoke.

Agreed, and agree.

The 1st being an outlet that has recepts installed at that point. But it's not limited to having just recepts. Example: a box that has a duplex yoke and a hardwired device to the same BC that is in that box.

 

[LarryFine]

There could be 5 outlets in that box if 5 BC's are there and power is being pulled out of each BC.

There can't be five circuits supplying five receptacles in one receptacle outlet?

I'd call a quad four receptacles in one outlet, regardless of the number of circuits.

 

[FionaZuppa]

So it is a receptacle outlet, and a regular outlet at the same time? That is the way I see it.

I would have to say nope, not using thise words.
All outlets are regular outlets by definition, but you perhaps can describe what's installed there by saying it's a "recept outlet", which is the exact definition attached to "Receptacle Outlet", etc.

 

[FionaZuppa]

There can't be five circuits supplying five receptacles in one receptacle outlet?

I'd call a quad four receptacles in one outlet, regardless of the number of circuits.

4 duplex yokes, not strapped, being fed via eight (8) 15A BC's directly connected to the yokes. There are eight (8) outlets in this one (1) box (call them "receptacle outlets" if you want to).

This configuration is some sort of NEC violation?

 

[FionaZuppa]

I would have to say nope, not using thise words.
All outlets are regular outlets by definition, but you perhaps can describe what's installed there by saying it's a "recept outlet", which is the exact definition attached to "Receptacle Outlet", etc.

"Receptacle Outlet"
In terms of grammar, "receptacle" is the adjective, and "outlet" is the noun (a place, or in NEC words, a "point").

 

[FionaZuppa]

I say the box's internal volume is the outlet.

I would say no. The "outlet" is the point at which you pull power from the BC wires. What about a box that is there just to tie-extend the BC wires, and then you cap it with a blank cover. No power is being pulled from the BC wires at that location (from inside that box, etc).

I mentioned it earlier, you don't actually need a box to make an "outlet". Run romex from ocpd and just lay it on the floor and back-stab a duplex recept yoke. Voila, you created a "outlet" w/o a box. But of course, that type of wiring a violation of NEC.

 

[LarryFine]

4 duplex yokes, not strapped, being fed via eight (8) 15A BC's directly connected to the yokes. There are eight (8) outlets in this one (1) box (call them "receptacle outlets" if you want to).

I'd call that eight receptacles in a single, four-gang outlet box.

This configuration is some sort of NEC violation?

View attachment 2552793

Not that I'm aware of, as long as both circuits on each yoke open simultaneously.

 

[LarryFine]

I would say no. The "outlet" is the point at which you pull power from the BC wires. What about a box that is there just to tie-extend the BC wires, and then you cap it with a blank cover. No power is being pulled from the BC wires at that location (from inside that box, etc).

I never said that every box is an outlet, just that every receptacle box is.

I mentioned it earlier, you don't actually need a box to make an "outlet". Run romex from ocpd and just lay it on the floor and back-stab a duplex recept yoke. Voila, you created a "outlet" w/o a box. But of course, that type of wiring a violation of NEC.

A surface-mount receptacle, such as for a range or dryer, is an example of a boxless receptacle outlet, too.