One Reason the NEC Can be Difficult to Understand

[Pierre C Belarge]

I am preparing for a seminar I am presenting. One of the methods of preparing is referencing the ROP/ROC. This method helps in many ways to get an idea what the CMP personnel are thinking and how they use certain terms.
I also spend an extrodinary amount of time in the NEC and references in preparation for the classes I teach.

With that said, the average electrician/EC may not even be aware of some of the references I use (including Manufacturer's sites), and most likely have no clue about the ROP/ROC.

I am sympathetic towards the amount of time it takes to learn what I have spent so much time learning as well as others here and in the industry.


So...how are the average electrician and EC really going to learn what the details really are and apply them to the work they do???
The industry has grown in complexity. The family the electrician/EC is trying to provide for, bring up, spend time with, and then run a business, has made this all very difficult.

The more I study, the more I realize the chasm between the ones who have the time/energy to figure this out, and the ones who struggle, will grow.

Basically TIME is the foe.

 

[480sparky]

I think the biggest problem is not the complexity of our trade, but the unwillingness of many to commit themselves to learn it.

Those who truly desire to learn will do so. They will read, study, and yes, even post on electricians' forums.

Those who don't desire to learn are already lost and most cannot be reached.

 

[rwreuter]

You are so correct. In the last several days researching this GEC issue I have learned more about THIS particular (250.32) section than I have in the past. I actually now can say I have a grasp of it rather than just doing it a certain way just because.

Confusion and lack of understanding helps if you are willing to search and research until you begin to see the light at the end of the tunnel. Even then you don't stop, you keep going.

 

[wbalsam1]

I think the biggest problem is not the complexity of our trade, but the unwillingness of many to commit themselves to learn it.

Those who truly desire to learn will do so. They will read, study, and yes, even post on electricians' forums.

Those who don't desire to learn are already lost and most cannot be reached.

100% agree with 480sparky. Keep up the good work, Pierre.

 

[LarryFine]

For the most part, the code is very literal. I think difficulty with comprehending the words is the issue.

I don't think it could be simplified with plain English and still work.

That's what this forum is for: translating English to English.

 

[Nium]

With that said, the average electrician/EC may not even be aware of some of the references I use (including Manufacturer's sites), and most likely have no clue about the ROP/ROC.

I am one of the clueless and am striving to be an above average electrician. What is ROP/ROC or what does it stand for?

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

I am one of the clueless and am striving to be an above average electrician. What is ROP/ROC or what does it stand for?

ROP - Report on Proposals a large (12 MB) download
ROC - Report on Comments

Nium
We all start somewhere, and in the beginning, it seems like a mountain unsurpassable. Take it one step at a time.

 

[480sparky]

For the most part, the code is very literal. ..........

I prefer to think of it as a legal document.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

We almost need a law degree to read it. What complicates it the most is all the changes. A man that has been doing this 20 or 30 years keeps dealing with what was legal once but not anymore. Many things i was doing 20 years ago were not even legal back then but passed inspectors because they often were not qualified either. NEC simply is not user friendly. Look at the many times on here that we see 200 posts and still can't agree on what it really said or intended to say.

 

[iwire]

I doubt that much has changed from 1909 to 2009 as far as electricians.

What I mean is the technology ECs where dealing with in 1909 where just as new to them as LED lamps are to us.

Everything is relative.

 

[realolman]

Although I agree that new is new, I think that there is WAY more to learn now than anytime in the past.

I have a few other thoughts:

Why is the code book so expensive?

Why is it copyrighted material instead of public domain?

Why is the information contained in codes that are enforced by law not explained and diseminated to the public in a more effective manner? Do you REALLY think that books cannot be, and are not written that would instruct an average person how to safely wire his own house? Why could these instructions not be available in an information rack in the public library, or other public establishments

Is this code, and it's related industry truly dedicated to the interest of safety, or an exclusive industry for the purpose of generating and protecting revenue in the name of safety?

I think when you consider the answers to some of those questions, you will know why the average electrician is not exposed to as much information and knowlege as the average electrician nimself would truly like to have.

 

[hardworkingstiff]

I think when you consider the answers to some of those questions, you will know why the average electrician is not exposed to as much information and knowlege as the average electrician nimself would truly like to have.

Not trying to be nasty, but probably the average electrician is average because he/she doesn't seek the information you speak of. It is easily obtained, and just like tools for the hands cost money, tools for the brain cost money.

 

[wbalsam1]

...........I have a few other thoughts:

...........................................
Why is the information contained in codes that are enforced by law not explained and diseminated to the public in a more effective manner? .......

Around these parts, it's largely attributed to the decline in electrician's participation in trade groups.

For years now, electrical inspectors have been "rubber-stamping" jobs that years back would have failed. We have third-party electrical inspectors who compete in the market for the inspection fees, thereby creating an environment where "failing" an installation could potentially become bad for business, since the contractor might "shop for another opinion".

If an electrician doesn't have to pay membership in the IAEI and attend conferences taking up whole Saturdays, because his inspector will pass anything, then why bother?

Many contractors and other classes of installers simply take the path of least resistance, nowadays.

I say out with third-party, private agencies (in NY)....but I'm alone in the wilderness........

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Although I agree that new is new, I think that there is WAY more to learn now than anytime in the past.

I have a few other thoughts:

Why is the code book so expensive?

If you look at the process used to develope the NEC, you will see that it is an expensive process. That coupled with the fact that the NFPA uses some of the profits from the sale of NEC document to fund the developement of some of their other codes and standards that are not in such widespead use as the NEC results in a some what high cost. If you would compare the cost of the NEC with many college textbooks you will find that the textbooks are a lot more expensive.

Why is it copyrighted material instead of public domain?

The NFPA paid to develope the NEC and holds the copyright to it. The local AHJ who has adopted the NEC or any other model building code, must have copies available for you to look at. There was a court case in the 5th US Circuit Court of Appeals a few years back that held that if an AHJ adopts a model code, posting a copy of that code on the internet would not be a copyright violation. That ruling has the force of law only within the 5th Circuit (Texas, Louisianna and Mississippi). Shorty after that case came down, the NFPA provided free access to all of their codes and standards on their website. The formal is not very user friendly, but you can read them.

Why is the information contained in codes that are enforced by law not explained and diseminated to the public in a more effective manner? Do you REALLY think that books cannot be, and are not written that would instruct an average person how to safely wire his own house? Why could these instructions not be available in an information rack in the public library, or other public establishments

I am not aware of other laws being fully explained and diseminated to the public. Why should a building code be any different? As far as instruction books, any one is free to write one and have it published. I would take issue with the statement that you could write a book with enough detail so that the average person can safely wire his own house.

Is this code, and it's related industry truly dedicated to the interest of safety, or an exclusive industry for the purpose of generating and protecting revenue in the name of safety?

I would agree that there are some parts of the code that are only profit centers for manufacturers, but the vast majority of the code is safety related.

I think when you consider the answers to some of those questions, you will know why the average electrician is not exposed to as much information and knowlege as the average electrician nimself would truly like to have.

The information is out there for any electrician who wants to find it and learn it. This forum is just one example of a source of quality information about the use an application of the NEC. I don't think it is the lack of available information that results in poor installations...I think it is just apathy on the part of the installer.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Generalization is too easy an answer. Saying that apathy is the answer to why electricians are not good or in answer to the post I put up is too easy.

It is much more complex than that, just as is our industry. Since 1909, the industry has become much more complex, and the amount of new information that is available on a daily basis has created "information overload".

Why is it that with all of the forums available the percentage fo participants is less than 1% of the electrical people involved in the industry. (I based this on reading, between all the personnel who participate in the industry totals more than a million people across our great country. I found that on a website dealing with the lack of new entries into the field and how it will affect employment in the near future)

For people in general, life and the pursuit of the american dream has consumed the average person. There is so much to life, including work, that people in general today are overwhelmed.



There are always going to be those who excel and work harder, including those of us here who are obsessed with information.

But...we are the very small minority, hence the term I use about the "AVERAGE" individual having a more difficult time.

How many electricians who try to understand the information, but do not have the reading/writing skills to get past the NEC and other codes we need to be aware of, actually have the chance to make it as far codewise as say some of us here??? I venture to say very few.
The education process for adults in our industry has to change, as well as the consequences of being "uneducated".

 

[hardworkingstiff]

Why is it that with all of the forums available the percentage fo participants is less than 1% of the electrical people involved in the industry. (I based this on reading, between all the personnel who participate in the industry totals more than a million people across our great country. I found that on a website dealing with the lack of new entries into the field and how it will affect employment in the near future)

I'd say apathy is some of it. Yes it's easy, but I believe it to be valid.

How many electricians who try to understand the information, but do not have the reading/writing skills to get past the NEC and other codes we need to be aware of, actually have the chance to make it as far codewise as say some of us here??? I venture to say very few.
The education process for adults in our industry has to change, as well as the consequences of being "uneducated".

I think this is a testiment to the problem of "the dumbing down of America" that has been going on for decades.

I wish I had an answer to your insightful questions.

 

[220/221]

I think difficulty with comprehending the words is the issue.

I KNOW that it is MY issue.

 

[realolman]

Well I downloaded the ROP .... 998(? )pages.


I don't mean this to be a wise guy, but sincerely.... what should we do with this?

What would you expect the average electrician to do with this?

 

[rwreuter]

I have been guilty of this of this so I don't my saying it.

Most electricians (in my opinion) only learn just enough to do their job. If something changes that effects what they do on a daily basis, they figure out what is needed and look no further and press on.

Most just don't address something until it needs addressing.

 

[joebell]

Well I downloaded the ROP .... 998(? )pages.


I don't mean this to be a wise guy, but sincerely.... what should we do with this?

What would you expect the average electrician to do with this?

What I do with it is pick out something that I came across during my day, look up the related article and section then kinda cross reference it to the ROP to see what changes lie ahead.

I also use it after the new code is adopted and out to find some history ,or reason why a certain change occured.



man I gotta get a life