Opinion - Would you turn them in ?

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goldstar

goldstar

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
The laws here in NJ are written such that if you operate a motor vehicle with commercial plates you must have a sign on the vehicle that shows your company name and phone number or the police will ticket you. And, if you operate a vehicle without commercial plates and you have a sign on it the police will ticket you. Having said that, if you are a licensed electrician or plumber you must have your license number clearly displayed somewhere on the vehicle. This law is imposed by the NJ-DCA and is punishable by a fine. The fine for this offense is probably $75-$100. However, many of the police depts. are not knowledgable about this section of the law and often let EC's and PC's slide on this.

Each time our contractors' association has someone come down from the DCA to give a class they implore us to "police" our own industry and turn in people we know are doing electrical work without a license. One of the first things you learn in the process of getting your license is to have your license number appear on your vehicle and on any stationary you have printed. In the past few months I have noticed 6 or 7 contractors pull up to the supply house with magnetic signs on their trucks and no license number.

My question is this : Would you confront these contractors and politely inform them of the law or would you turn them in to the DCA ?

I've already confronted several of these contractors hoping to save them from the cost of a fine but none of them have added their license #'s to their vehicles.
 
For licensed contractors, I don't get too concerned if they are violating the sign laws. Here, for example, the law says you have to have your name and EC license number on both sides of the vehicle in contrasting colors in lettering at least 3" high by 1/2" wide. I've seen plenty of vehicles at the supply house where the lettering was smaller than 3" or where their license number wasn't displayed. I don't think the cops get involved in these kinds of violations. Rather, I think they get cited by the electrical inspectors when they run across them. I know someone who does enforcement for the state, and I know they have far bigger fish to fry than some EC whose license number is displayed with lettering smaller than 3". My guess is that such people get a warning letter instead of an outright fine. I know an EC who was caught doing a job without pulling a permit, and he got a warning letter.

On the other hand, if I find someone advertising electrical work without having an EC license, I turn them in. I've gotten a lot of ads pulled. I may not be able to stop all unlicensed work, but I sure don't have to tolerate hacks advertising their illegal services.

For the record, the smallest lettering on my truck is exactly 3" high. :D
 
Do we really want to turn into a nation of informers, ready at the drop of the hat to rat out anyone who does not conform to some petty and nonsensical rules the bureaucrats put into place?

Papieren bitte!
 
I'd turn in a contractor doing work without a license. for the licensed contractor without the truck lettering, I would let the police take care of it. If they don't care, neither would I.
 
goldstar said:
My question is this : Would you confront these contractors and politely inform them of the law or would you turn them in to the DCA ?
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Why not politely ask them to join the contractors association? Get them on your team. Just a though.
 
Bob, why don't you personally pay all of our yearly licensing fees, Insurance costs, Continuing education, Workmans comp, etc... and we may just agree with you, until then I'm sure many of us will let the authorites know of these illegal operators.

And as far as
Papieren bitte!
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what a stupid and rediculous stretch as far as a comparison if that was your intent.

Roger
 
I used to go nuts over unlicensed competition. Now I'm of the opinion that if someone wants the work cheap and is willing to risk the consequences of hiring a hack, well they deserve what they get. I don't want those customers anyway, they're just too cheap. I also see the work of some of my "legit" competition and wonder how they ever passed a test. I think the consumer needs to take more of the responsibility to check references and get referals before making a decision on who to hire. The states are not doing a very good job of insuring professional work.
 
bkludecke said:
I also see the work of some of my "legit" competition and wonder how they ever passed a test. I think the consumer needs to take more of the responsibility to check references and get referals before making a decision on who to hire.
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I can agree to a point but the problem is that most homeowners and business people don't know much about the constuction trades and even less about the law. They are not forced to read a lot of trade specific materials or attend classes. Many of the rules that appear simple to us actually took years to learn.

I can go on a job and spot 20 code violations and all the customer sees is the lights are on. I don't know anything about medicine so I just have to take the doctors word for it that the perscription he gave me is safe. That's why I like to think he a least went to medical school ( they all make mistakes), it just makes me think my odds are improved. If he actually has malpractice insurance so much the better ( I didn't know until recently that some states don't require it, They call it "going bare" if they operate without it ).

I don't hear a lot of people complaining about needing a license to operate and automobile or hunting , fishing , piloting an airplane. So what's the big deal about needing a license to do electrical work. The Game Warden will ask to see your hunting license on public land ( I'm part of the public so I should own part of the land ). I don't get upset over it. When they tell you how many fish you can keep do you hear anyone screaming "Police State ".

It doesn't take much more effort to get a contractors license ( for a competent electrician ) than it does a drivers license. To get a contractors license you get to sit all day ( they don't finger print or take your picture) and to get a drivers license you to get to stand all day. You are checked for " basic competence " and if you know what you are doing a license is issued. Most people don't mind getting some instruction when it comes to learing to drive and yet they consider electrical a natural ability ( no need for testing ).
 
In CA you need to be fingerprinted to get a contractors license.

I didn't mean to give the impression that I'm against testing for competence or licensing (I'm all for it), but that license doesn't guarantee competence or honesty.

I think the best requirement is for continueing education. I got my EC license in 1977. Do you think things have changed much since then in our trade??
I go to 6-8 seminars/year and still feel stupid alot of the time.
 
bkludecke said:
I didn't mean to give the impression that I'm against testing for competence or licensing (I'm all for it), but that license doesn't guarantee competence or honesty.
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Sorry I didn't mean to impugn you personally. I was trying give something from the homeowner point of view and got carried away. Just rambling. I agree that continueing education is the way to go. You are not the only one that feels stupid a lot of the time. I don't think it's because we know any less it's because we question ourselves more.
 
goldstar said:
My question is this : Would you confront these contractors and politely inform them of the law or would you turn them in to the DCA ? .
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I have a hard enough time conducting my own affairs. I don't need to stick my nose in someone else's business. I don't see being the 'license number on your truck police' as being part of my job. There's plenty of work to go around. I don't know why it should ever be illegal for a qualified person to earn a living.
 
"Each time our contractors' association has someone come down from the DCA to give a class they implore us to "police" our own industry and turn in people we know are doing electrical work without a license."

Yes, we should all police our industry, to keep it a professional business, and not let it fall into something the consumer looses confidence in, with that said, for those of us that have qualified, and continue to stay current with the industry codes, and standards, along with paying all the expenses required to operate a legal business, we must police our industry by reporting of any activity, of un licensed work, not doing so will only lead to a preception by the consumers, that it is premitted to have someone un licensed do electrical work.

When my living, and life time invesment from operating a licensed business is challanged, by someone trying to take the easy street, and has no respect for the law, what makes you think their work will be legal. or safe, you can bet i will report their activity.
 
I am not sure if electical contractors are required to post licence# on the van (company name, yes) I could be wrong. However I see every plumber truck with all their #'s listed, and can't recall ever seeing an electrical truck with them.
 
goldstar said:
My question is this : Would you confront these contractors and politely inform them of the law or would you turn them in to the DCA ?
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I would NOT confront them.
I would, however, ask them if they have a business card, do sub work/small jobs etc.
I would then forward that information - if they have a card - to the DCA:
http://www.nj.gov/lps/ca/complaint/eleccom.pdf

....or maybe I would call their number and send them on snipe hunts ;)
 
I just bought a new van in July. I haven't had it lettered yet. It looks so nice, all clean and white and shiny. It seems a crime to muss it up with letters and numbers.
I do include my license number on my invoices and my letterhead. And I will get my truck lettered sometime soon, probably after I get ticketed for it. It's just not the most important thing on my "to do" list right now.
Turn someone in for not displaying their name & license number? Of course not. Turn someone in for working without a license? Sure, without hesitation.
 
Jes...a word of caution...if you should get pulled over by the police...and they ask "Are you a contractor?" Do NOT answer the question.
A friend of mine - licensed EC - also has an "unmarked" van, with the exception of a ladder rack and ladder. He was pulled over in Scotch Plains (?) and answered yes to the question ~ instant ticket for $500 +/-.
The best way to answer, IMHO, is to say " Why, do you need some work done?" Sure it's a "non-answer", but it isn't a lie and you don't incriminate yourself ;)
 
I wouldn't turn them in to anyone. Personally I don't really care. If they're licensed, bonded and insured then the playing field is level. That's more important when bidding against me on a job than the license # on his truck.
 
jes2727 said:
Turn someone in for not displaying their name & license number? Of course not. Turn someone in for working without a license? Sure, without hesitation.
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If they don't have their license number displayed on the side of their truck how do you know they're licensed ?
celtic said:
A friend of mine - licensed EC - also has an "unmarked" van, with the exception of a ladder rack and ladder. He was pulled over in Scotch Plains (?) and answered yes to the question ~ instant ticket for $500 +/-
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This is really what I'm trying to prevent. Personally, I don't care whether their license # is on the truck or not. However, each time I've confronted any of these individuals I get a sarcastic remark back or a "mind your own business" look. They know they're wrong for not having the license # on the truck so why risk a ticket ? So much for being a nice guy !!!
 
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