Opinion - Would you turn them in ?

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goldstar said:
If they don't have their license number displayed on the side of their truck how do you know they're licensed.
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In this area only a really stupid person would put a sign on their truck if they were not licensed. If they don't advertise it's very hard for the authorities to do anything about thier activities. Business cards, truck signs or any type of advertising is more or less an admission of guilt ( they don't even have to catch them actually doing any work ).

If you have some time on your hands and want to know if they are legal start with the company name and phone number. If the phone number is a home or buisness they are probably legal. A cell number on a truck is a real red flag. If you can get a business card look for a real world address as a P.O. box is another red flag.

I have only spotted one unlicensed contractor in this area and I knew it the minute I looked at the card he left with the homeowner. They card only had this information: Electrical Contractor, call John and then a cell number. Have you ever known of a legal contractor not to add at least: licensed & insured.
 
I've seen signs on trucks for unlicensed work. I know of a handyman operation where they listed "electrical" as one of their services, and I know for a fact that they have no EC license. I was able to get the state to have their ads pulled.

The big red flag for me is when the EC doesn't have a name that sounds like a legit contractor. If all the ad says is "call John" it's a safe bet he's illegal. The law here requires your official EC name as it appears on your license in any ads, and I'm pretty sure no one is going to choose just "John" as their company name. Legit ECs know we have to put this information in our ads, so it's easy for us to spot the hacks.

I don't know if I'd consider a cell phone a red flag so much, as lots of people use them exclusively these days. My girlfriend hasn't had a land line for years. My drywall guy has a cell phone number on his truck, and I know he's properly licensed.

I agree with growler that legit ECs generally make an effort to present evidence of being legit. I always list my EC license number on business cards, in ads, etc. even though I don't legally have to.
 
jeff43222 said:
I've seen signs on trucks for unlicensed work. I know of a handyman operation where they listed "electrical" as one of their services, and I know for a fact that they have no EC license. I was able to get the state to have their ads pulled.
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Jeff, here it's a lot harder to spot the hacks. Only electricans, plumbers and HVAC required to have a state license. General contractors, handymen and maintenance companies only require a business license ( some will not even do that ). They are even allowed to do minor electrical ( light fixture changes, receptacles and switch change out, that sort of thing ).

When it comes to cell phones I look at it this way, why would a contractor not want to be found ? It's hard to look up a cell number but a land line is easy just look to the yellow pages. Many people do use cell numbers or even unlisted numbers but would you trust a contractor that has an unlisted number. In a business where the object is to have as much visibility as possible why would anyone try to hide. I like to only deal with those that have a real address and a land line because they leave a trail ( I may need to get in touch sooner or later ).

A drywall contractor may not need much exposure because most of his business will come from general contractors.
Jeff would you have a girl friend if all you knew about her was a cell number. I tried that and it turned out she wasn't a student but was married to a professor. We didn't have cell phones back then but I didn't get a home phone number ( only a work phone and this made me suspicious ).

I just learned why a certain realtor is screening all his calls and using cell phones. ( his license is revoked and that can't be good ).
 
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I guess it goes to show how things vary from place to place. Around these parts, only state-licensed ECs are allowed to advertise electrical work, no matter how minor it is. I know plenty of handymen and GCs do electrical work, but they are doing it illegally, and since they aren't licensed, they probably are doing it wrong. When I see their ads, I send them to my friend at the state, and he gets the ads pulled.

I agree that a "contractor" immediately looks suspicious to me if they don't seem easy to find. The law here requires anyone doing business under any name other than their legal name to register the assumed name with the secretary of state and advertise it in a major newspaper in the legal notices. That's so the guy operating Joe's Handyman Service can be tracked down if needed. It's easy enough to verify that someone has a license to do any of the trades, though. The state makes the information available on the Web.

As for my drywall guy, he's not even in the yellow pages. He only advertises in neighborhood newspapers, and he doesn't get a lot of his work from GCs. He's been in business for over 20 years, and at this point most of his work comes from referrals. I started calling him in when I bumped into him at a job and saw how meticulous he was. Whenever I make big holes, I call him and he puts me at the top of his priority list. I also happen to know where he lives. :D

Yeah, I'd be suspicious if my girlfriend was only a name and a cell phone number, but I know where she lives. I've also met her parents and know where they live. :D
 
goldstar said:
...each time I've confronted any of these individuals I get a sarcastic remark back or a "mind your own business" look.
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That's why you let them set themselves up ;) ....my motto is:
I don't have bad days - you do.

​
When I'm having a "bad day", someone else needs to share in the misery :roll:

goldstar said:
They know they're wrong for not having the license # on the truck so why risk a ticket ?
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You'd be surprised what some of these people don't know :D
You could be a nice guy and drop a copy of these on their windshield (anonymusly, of course):

http://www.state.nj.us/lps/ca/contractors/notice.htm
http://www.state.nj.us/lps/ca/press/homeimpr.htm
http://www.state.nj.us/lps/ca/press/hicontract.htm

or drop the big book:

http://www.state.nj.us/lps/ca/contractors/statsregs.pdf
 
I have a read lot of the responses in this post, and some very good points were made. I was wondering if the individuals that did not have a license # posted on their vehicle knew that this was required by law? Starting a new business is very costly, and trying to establish a customer base to generate revenue is one of your top priorities. I started out with mag signs because it was all that I could afford at the time. I can imagine what it would have felt like if someone had turned me in for not having the proper info on my sign. It not only would have put a strain on the company financially, it also would have taken money out of the company that may have been allocated for me as my income, and my income is what I feed my family with and that I would take kind of personal. It is every contractors responsibility to make sure that they are running a business in accordance with the laws in the state in which they reside. IMO it is NOT the responsibility of other contractors to "police" their own, that is job of the state and local officials to do. The states receive taxes that are from the citizens and businesses throughout the state. They are paid to regulate the industry. Now they want you to do their job too? Do you get a tax break for every contractor you turn in? Probably not. The more you do for the state, the less the state will do for you. If someone is doing work without a license or permit, then I say turn them in because they are knowingly disobeying the law. But if they are running around town and don't have their license # on the sign, leave them alone. They probably didn't know it was required. Do you really want to do that when all the guy is trying to do is feed his family? Maybe you could just mention it to them that the state requires that info to be posted on the sign and that they might want to get it taken care of before they catch up him. Help the person out, you don't have to hurt them. If it was such an issue then the police should handle it. That's what you pay them to do.
 
Listen fellow Marine, I'm not trying to bust anyone's chops. My reason for this post was merely to get some opinions on how to deal with these individuals. BTW, I started out with mag signs too and my license # was on the sign because it was drilled into me when I got my license that it had to be clearly displayed on the truck AND it was there, precisely because I knew I had to feed my family. Most of the guys that I've seen without license #'s on their trucks have been in business longer than me and I know that because I've seen some of their other trucks with the license #'s on them. So, the fact of the matter is they DO know the rules.

Many of us know what it feels like to get a traffic ticket. You can be the safest and most curteous driver in the world. Then one day comes along where an overzealous police officer decides to issue you a summons for going 10 miles over the speed limit. You've suddenly gone from safest and most curteous to a criminal in a matter of a few minutes. And, as if that wasn't punishmant enough, your insurance company decides "well you've been convicted of speeding so you must be a speeder" and they bump up your insurance premiums.

All I'm trying to say here is if you know the license # has to be clearly displayed on your truck then write it on there with a crayon if you have to to avoid a $500.00 fine. BTW, the State doesn't have license # police that they send out to find out whether you have your # displayed opn your truck. If they are informed that someone doesn't have their # on the truck they will first make an inquiry to that company and that, in and of itself, should make the company get the # written, painted or drawn on the truck.

Semper Fi,

Phil

PS : Celtic, thanks for the links. Edit your post when you get a chance because they didn't show up as hyperlinks.

Regards,

Phil
 
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goldstar said:
PS : Trevor, thanks for the links. Edit your post when you get a chance because they didn't show up as hyperlinks.

Regards,

Phil
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Phil I can't take credit for the links, those were provided by Celtic. BTW hyperlinks are now disabled on this forum. You now must copy and paste the link to see it.
 
Thanks Trevor. I realized I made a mistake by thinking it was you instead of Celtic. I thought I went back and made the change but apparently it didn't take the first time.

When did the forum stop the auto hyperlink ?
 
goldstar said:
Thanks Trevor. I realized I made a mistake by thinking it was you instead of Celtic.
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Heyyyyyy!

I demand a little respect
drevil_sp.jpg



:grin::grin:
 
On another note, I've heard that magnetic signs in and of themselves are not legal, at least here in MA. Something about the sign needing to be permanent. Maybe a DOT rule? Definitely not a rule from out state licensing board. Anyone else ever heard anything like this?

The guy who letters my trucks told me this, but I didn't ask him for for a reference. He's been lettering trucks for over 30 years, so he might be accurate with the statement.
 
j_erickson said:
On another note, I've heard that magnetic signs in and of themselves are not legal, at least here in MA. Something about the sign needing to be permanent. .
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Yeah, if any of your trucks are heavy enough to need a USDOT number (a couple of mine are), that number needs to be permanent.
 
My sign guy said that even in a situation that wouldn't require a truck to be lettered, if it were, it must be permanent. I've just had that in the back of my mind for years now, but haven't bothered to look into it. Then again, I might have misunderstood him, or he could be wrong.
 
The following in an excerpt from NJAC 13.31 General Rules and Regulations. After reading this I discovered that myself and about 95% of all the electrical contractors here in NJ are in violation. While I don't have my own name on the truck (as the license-holder) I do have the company name. I do have the license # on the sides of the truck but I do not have the business permit # (in most cases, if you didn't change the name of your company when you first received your license then the business permit # is the same). And, these numbers are not 3" in height.

So, again I'm not looking to bust anyone's chops as it is evident that I am aparently not in total compliance. However, not having a license # at all on your work vehicle is a red flag, IMHO.

13:31-1.4 Compliance with laws
Electrical contractors and business permit holders shall comply with all general and special Federal, State and municipal laws, ordinances and regulations pertaining to the business of electrical contracting and those employed or engaged therein. Violations of any such Federal, State and municipal laws, ordinances and regulations may be deemed occupational misconduct within the meaning of N.J.S.A. 45:1-21(e) and may subject a licensee to disciplinary action as set forth at N.J.S.A. 45:1-21 et seq.

13:31-1.5 Identification of licensees, permittees and qualified journeyman electricians; vehicles; stationery; advertising
(a) All commercial vehicles utilized in the practice of licensed electrical contracting shall be visibly marked on both sides with the following information:
1. The name of the licensed electrical contractor in lettering at least three inches in height;
2. The words ?Electrical Contractor license number? or ?Electrical Contractor Lic. #? followed by the license number of the qualifying licensee and the words ?Electrical Contractor business permit number? or ?Electrical
Contractor Bus. Permit #?? followed by the business permit number of the business permit holder in lettering at least three inches in height; and
3. The name of the owner or lessee of the vehicle and the municipality from which the licensee practices or where the licensee has a principal office in lettering at least three inches in height.

i. Where available space for lettering is limited, either by design of the vehicle or by the presence of other legally specified identification markings, making strict compliance with (a)1, 2 or 3 above impractical, the size of the lettering shall be as close to three inches high as possible within the limited space, provided the name is clearly visible and readily identifiable.

(b) All business correspondence and stationery shall display the following information:
1. The name of the licensed electrical contractor;
2. The words ?Electrical Contractor license number?? or ?Electrical Contractor Lic. #? followed by the license number of the qualifying licensee and the words ?Electrical Contractor business permit number? or ?Electrical Contractor Bus. Permit #? followed by the business permit number of the business permit holder; and
3. The business address, including the street name and number, of the qualifying licensee.
(c) All advertising shall include the following information:
1. The name of the licensed electrical contractor;
2. The words ?Electrical Contractor license number? or ?Electrical Contractor Lic. #?? followed by the license number of the qualifying licensee and the words ?Electrical Contractor business permit number? or ?Electrical Contractor Bus. Permit #? followed by the business permit number of the business permit holder; and
3. The business address, including the street name and number, of the qualifying licensee.
(d) Every licensed electrical contractor whose name, office address, place of practice, license number or business permit number appears or is mentioned in any advertisement of any kind or character shall be presumed to have caused, permitted or approved the advertising and shall be personally responsible for its content and character.
(e) No licensee shall perform electrical contracting work without having in his or her possession a business permit identification as provided in N.J.S.A. 45:5A-9.
(f) Upon request, the Board shall issue a qualified journeyman electrician identification card to an individual who satisfies the definition of N.J.A.C. 13:31-1.2 and requests such a card. The fee, as set forth in N.J.A.C. 13:31- 1.6, shall be payable only one time.
 
Phil,
I know you aren't out to bust chops. You know what you have to do to be in compliance with the regulations and are taking responsibility for it. If you are in compliance with these regulations, what do you have to worry about? The ones who need to worry are the ones who aren't doing anything about it. If you feel that it is necessary to turn these people in then do so. IMHO, I would first correct my discrepancies, then I would pass the info on to the others as a gesture of courtesy to my fellow tradesman. If they choose to ignore my info, then I'll just shrug my shoulders and say to myself "I warned you". If by chance they do get popped, then you can say to yourself that you tried to help them out and they chose not to accept it. I would not turn them in.
 
memyselfandI said:
...then I would pass the info on to the others as a gesture of courtesy to my fellow tradesman.
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I agree, sort of. While I would certainly love to educate my fellow tradesmen, simply out of courtesy and kindness, it's a hard thing to pull off. Unless you're a true man of the people (which is a trait I do not possess), it will be hard to pass along this information without seeming like you're a 'know-it-all' or a busybody. I remember a contractor wigging out on me when I told him that it looked like the romex that he had his ladder lashed on with was coming loose. I'm a little gun-shy now.
 
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My 2 cents, mind your own business. In the world of everyday business we all bend the rules to some extent. Do you want OSHA on the job when you disconnect and reconnect a service because the guy down the street turned you in? My business is difficult enough without sticking my nose in someone else's business. Just my opinion.
 
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