Opinion - Would you turn them in ?

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Thanks guys. All of your comments are well spoken and thought out. BTW, I never had any intention of turning anyone in. In a friendly way I just wanted to save them from the possibility of a fine. The way I look at this is if I've confronted them once and they don't heed the warning then I can walk away feeling comfortable that I've at least done my duty as a fellow contractor by passing along the info.

I'd never make it as a police negotiator. I'd have more people jumping than I would climbing down !!!
 
"Would you confront these contractors and politely inform them of the law or would you turn them in to the DCA ?"

I find all opinion on this very interesting. But if your willing to report them for not having the right sized lettering on their van, what do you do when you go to a home and find code violations and know who the previous EC was? Do you inform the home owner and tell them to contact the EC or AHJ? Do you call the EC and inform them to comeback and do it right? To me this is more dangerous the van lettering.
 
Mike Bates said:
Did any of you do side work before getting your license?
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That would depend on your definition of "sidework".

The scope of what an individual can do w/o the need for a permit is my definition of "sidework". In NJ, that scope is quite limited. In my area, it may be even more limited (I haven't worked everywhere):
Below is a list of projects for which a permit is NOT required. If your project does not appear on the list below, please call the Building Department above to see if you need a permit.

Electrical Permits
* Replacement of any receptacle, switch or lighting fixture rated at 20 amps or less.
* Replacement of receptacles where Ground fault receptacle is required, must be done with a permit.
* Repairs to doorbells, communication systems and motor operated devices.
* Communication wiring in single family residences.
* Replacement of domestic dishwashers
* Replacement of range hoods in single family dwellings.
​
Fire Protection Permits
* Replacement of smoke or heat detectors.
* Installation of battery powered smoke detectors.
​
Mechanical Permits
* Replacement of motors, pumps and fans of the same capacity.
​
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What is your definition of "sidework"?
 
Mike Bates said:
Did any of you do side work before getting your license?
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Yes, but always w/licensed guy. He did charge full rate. No moonlight rate, I learned a bunch from him.:D

Tom
 
Here in NJ you can wire an entire house as a side job if the HO gets the electrical permit.
 
I've done sidework, and I hate it. I hate working without a net. It's tricky enough with one. The payoff is generally less than the anxiety and sweat cost. That's my opinion.

Since laws vary from state to state, there's some that have no licensing laws to speak of. Slap a magnet on your wagon and get to work. Others are very strict.

Given that this is a national (heck, global if you look at it that way) forum, I don't see the relevance. The definition changes from state to state.

I only see the conversation as a means to discriminate - but maybe that's just me, today. Who knows. :)
 
"Did any of you do side work before getting your license? "
For another Lic. EC yes i did, for myself, not at all, din't want to risk everything, electrical work, is not the sort of thing you do on the side.

"Here in NJ you can wire an entire house as a side job if the HO gets the electrical permit."

Not in any legal way, the homeowner permit is for the homeowner, not for someone else to do the work.
 
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satcom said:
"Did any of you do side work before getting your license? "
For another Lic. EC yes i did, for myself, not at all, din't want to risk everything, electrical work, is not the sort of thing you do on the side.

"Here in NJ you can wire an entire house as a side job if the HO gets the electrical permit."

Not in any legal way, the homeowner permit is for the homeowner, not for someone else to do the work.
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Side work is already illegal. The point being that the HO can file for the permit, have it inspected and get a CO. The building department doesn't seem to care who did the work.
 
"The building department doesn't seem to care who did the work."


Not all the building departments turn the other way, some will enforce the laws as intended.

I remember one from last year, where the job was failed, and they pulled Mr Side Job into court.
 
infinity said:
Here in NJ you can wire an entire house as a side job if the HO gets the electrical permit.
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This is partially correct. If your neighbor takes out a permit to do electrical work at his house and you (as a novice and a friend or as an electrician and a friend) go over to help him and you do not accept any $$ then there is no consideration and therefore no contract. However, if you (as a novice) accept $$ then you've, in essence, made a contract to do electrical work illegally. By the same token if you are an electrical contractor and accept $$ for the work then you've done that work without sealing the permit. Technically both are violations of the law but good luck trying to catch someone in the act.
 
goldstar said:
This is partially correct. If your neighbor takes out a permit to do electrical work at his house and you (as a novice and a friend or as an electrician and a friend) go over to help him and you do not accept any $$ then there is no consideration and therefore no contract. However, if you (as a novice) accept $$ then you've, in essence, made a contract to do electrical work illegally. By the same token if you are an electrical contractor and accept $$ for the work then you've done that work without sealing the permit. Technically both are violations of the law but good luck trying to catch someone in the act.
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That was my point. If the HO is saving a lot of money by getting an unlicensed guy to do the work he's not going to say he hired an unlicensed guy to do the work. He will say that he did it and his bother, cousin, friend, uncle, etc. helped him. Now trying to prosecute the guy who really did the work is nearly impossible. Most of the small towns around here don't even have the resources to go after the guy.
 
infinity said:
Most of the small towns around here don't even have the resources to go after the guy.
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And therein lies the other problem. I once met a guy that inspected for 9 different towns here in northern NJ. A lot of these towns are either broke or are looking to severely cut back on "unnecessary" expenses and hire inspectors on a per diem basis. Neither the towns or the state have the resourses to police for unlicensed work.

BTW, I was mentioning this to a friend of mine yesterday and he informed me that the Bergen County Electrical Contractors' Assn. (here in NJ) now has a hot line that you can call into and report any unlicensed work that you are certain is being done. They will phone the respective police dept. who, in turn, will come out to investigate and issue a summons if the contractor is doing work without a license or a permit.
 
"will come out to investigate and issue a summons if the contractor is doing work without a license or a permit."


And don't think they are not using it, i went to the postoffice with the truck, the guys were working outside, they had their uniforms on with the company name and Lic#, but facing the house so you could not see unless you walked up, so what happened is another EC drove by, din't see a truck and called it in, police arrived and checked permit and lic, i was only gone for 10 minutes.

So it does work, only thing is they need to find the unlicensed guys.
 
I consider sidework anything you get paid for. I agree with george, that the anxiety is not worth a couple of extra bucks. I also know lots of people are out there doing side jobs, without a licensce, while working full time in the trade. Does this mean they are unqualified or just working illegally?For those of you who have employees, do you let them work on their own.....Do you truly look at everything they do, are you confident in their skills? Do you push them to learn code, look up items, work out calculations. essentially treat your business and licensce as if it were their own? I'm not looking to start trouble, I'm just curious of your opinions.
 
Mike Bates said:
Do you truly look at everything they do, are you confident in their skills? Do you push them to learn code, look up items, work out calculations. essentially treat your business and licensce as if it were their own? I'm not looking to start trouble, I'm just curious of your opinions.
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From small companies to large no one ever inspects everthing that's done. That's why qualified employees are required by the NEC. Being qualified will allow you to do an install in a compliant manor. NEC requirement satisfied.

Now you have the " STATE Code" , which in most states requires you not only to be qualified but to hold a state license ( even bonding & insurance ).
At the local level you will probably be required to have business license.

When a qualified person ( unlicensed ) does side work they may satisfy NEC requirements but still be breakiing state and local laws.

They are also putting their customers at risk. If they damage property they are not covered by liability insurance and if they are injured they are not covered by workmans comp. insurance.

The best analogy I can think of is a person without a drivers license or insurance operating a motor vehicle on the public highway. They may know how to drive but they are putting everyone at risk financially.
 
I would let the law enforcement officials do their jobs. That is what you pay taxes for. I would not waste my valuable time worrying about someone else is doing. I find that if you mind your own business, you get a whole lot more accomplished through out the day. Plus RATS aren't cool.
 
wirestretcher said:
Plus RATS aren't cool.
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So I am required by law to report work done by non Electrical Contractors. Especially if it isn't code compliant..no permit...etc I would be labeled a RAT for doing so. All I want is a fair shake at the work so my Legit company will survive and Hopefully the powers at Hand will investigate the Underground Economy some more.
 
"I would not waste my valuable time worrying about someone else is doing."

So what you are saying is the investment in your business is not valuable, but your time is, that is a little hard to understand, when you pay all the expenses to operate a ligit business, and follow all the laws, and pay all the taxes, then someone stealing from everyone, including you, does not concern you?

When your in grade school and someone puts a frog in the teachers desk, and you tell the teacher, that's ratting, when your an adult, it's part of being a responsible adult.
 
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