Opinion - Would you turn them in ?

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You may be putting liability on yourself if you instruct others and you are not correct or have misinterrpted the information. They can come back and said joe Muskiedog told be this was the correct way.

Who is paying you to be the police? I have better things to do then report others that aren't doing it right.
 
I'm sorry, you took the point I am trying to get across the wrong way. Look at it this way. The person who hires Jose and his mystery machine van to do under par electrical work for a reduced rate probably would not even consider paying you or somebody else the going rate for an electrician. I know that if these people (unlicensed electricians) hacks weren't here the contracting world would be a much more profitable place (at least for the business owners), but these hacks are a fact of life, and some one playing vigilante or super hero calling the cops every time we see them working, in my oppinion is a big waste of time because that will not and never will change the way things work. Every one needs to make a living, thank goodness this "hack" is not sitting on his butt playing playstation, and reproducing, and eating cheeto's, and living off of the government. They may not all be legit, but at least they are doing something to earn a $, not just taking a hand out.
 
wirestretcher, while I have no data to back this up right now, you'd be shocked how many "hacks" are living off the government. They are in some program. This money is all off the books. So they collect their government check, and then make the money. They are able to do it because, like the argument that an employer covers a moonlighting employees nut, the government covers this guys nut. So in essense, you (as a tax payer) are subsidising many a moonlighters so that they can undercut your price and take food off of your table.
 
emahler,
I can appreciate where you are coming from. But the simple fact is, running around like a vigilante to do the cops job (what my taxes pay for) doesn't get us any further ahead. So we turn one of these guys in, and he gets arrested (officer, paperwork, car, gas = tax dollars). The judge (gets paid with your tax dollars) slaps him on the wrist with a fine. Hacker man pays his fine with money from his government check (your tax dollars). Hackerman goes back out tomorrow and takes anoter job that we didn't stand a chance of getting or making good money on any ways. What does this
accomplish??? Instead of wasting time worrying about something we can't change, we could be out making money on a job that hacker can not get. I have plenty of good food on my table, and I'm home almost every night to eat it, because I spend my time worrying about me and my company chasing profitable jobs, not worrying about hackerman and the mystery machine replaceing a fart fan for grandma who probably can't afford an electrician with her social security check any ways.
 
wirestretcher said:
But the simple fact is, running around like a vigilante to do the cops job (what my taxes pay for).....
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And that is the simple fact that many people don't fully appreciate: Whenever the government passes an ordinance, it has assumed upon itself the responsibility of enforcing it. The government has said, in essence, "you can't handle this, so we will". The simple act of their passing the law makes it their problem, not yours.

That they can pass the law and then ask for help from citizen enforcers only indicates that the lawmakers are confused about their job responsibilities. And, well, confused lawmakers shouldn't be passing any laws, ever.
 
while i don't necessarily disagree with either of you, and I am not saying for you to become "Johnny Law", the fact is, if we don't care about our industry and livlihood, who will.

I can say this, I don't really make it a habit of tracking down unlicensed moonlighters. However, I view this the same as I view the rest of my life, I don't rely on anyone else to do it for me. I don't feel that a police officers cares enough about my business to worry about it over theft or murder.

I should be more proactive. We all should. It's similar to drug infested neighborhoods. The honest law abiding citizens have a choice:

say "there is nothing I can do about it, they won't stop selling drugs"

or

say "they won't sell drugs in my neighborhood"

There are plenty of examples of this. Now, do they stop selling drugs completely? no. But when this neighborhood sticks together and says not here. They move to the next neighborhood. That neighborhood takes the same stance, so the dealers move to the next. And this keeps happening until a bunch of neighborhoods get together and kick the drug dealers out of a large area.

Will they ever eradicate all drugs, no. But they and their neighbors live a better life now.

Little tangent of an example, but I think you get my point.

I just rediscovered one of my favorite alltime quotes "whether you think you can or you think you can't, your correct" -Henry Ford
 
ceknight said:
Whenever the government passes an ordinance, it has assumed upon itself the responsibility of enforcing it. The government has said, in essence, "you can't handle this, so we will". The simple act of their passing the law makes it their problem, not yours.
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I don't agree. Many laws require that someone lodge a complaint before any action is taken. When you turn in an unlicensed contractor you are not acting as a vigilante and trying to enforce the law, you are merely making a compaint. If my neighbor beats and starves his dog then the police will have no way of knowing this until a complaint is filed.

Don't confuse law enforcement with the reporting of a crime.
 
There's no point having laws if they aren't going to be enforced. If those of us in the industry take the attitude that enforcement is entirely the responsibility of the government (after all, that's why they get paid), then most scofflaws would be able to operate with impunity. The authorities just don't have the resources to police the industry unless we help them out by showing them where the hacks are. The only way the authorities would be able to take over without needing our help is if they got way more resources, and that would mean huge increases in taxes, permit fees, etc. in order to fund it. Personally, I'd rather take a few minutes by pointing the state toward the bad guys than have to pay a lot more in taxes/fees.

I've turned in lots of hacks over the years, and the authorities always thank me for it. I know for a fact that they act on my information. I'm not out there confronting the lawbreakers or taking the law into my own hands. But when I see Handyman Stan running an ad offering to do electrical work (in addition to washing windows, mowing lawns, etc.), if I don't find him in the online database of licensed ECs, I send the ad to the state, and they make sure Stan's ads get pulled.

Sure, there will always be hacks, but doing nothing about them only lets them proliferate, and it cheapens the industry overall.

Just my $0.02. Your mileage may vary.
 
ceknight said:
And that is the simple fact that many people don't fully appreciate: Whenever the government passes an ordinance, it has assumed upon itself the responsibility of enforcing it.
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Unless off course, it's California:
Day one of California Certification


For the most part, I think the guys from NJ think a bit differently than some of the other states. Basically, we see it as policing our industry. The powers that be cannot spare the manpower to pro-actively address this issue (moonlighters), but an actual attempt is being made (Post #25).
The tools are there, all it takes is one phone call ~ the State would be happy to levy fines against them.
 
another thing to keep in mind...NJ has a plethora (go ahead, look it up) of inspectors who do work on the side, police officers who moonlight on their off days, firefighters who moonlight on their off days, etc.

what is their incentive to protect the legal contractor?
 
This is hitting home for me right now. I was sent to a house, "friend of the owner". I was supposed to get a few dead outlets working in the basement, and correct a tripping breaker. Day and a half later, I am absolutely horrified by things I have found. Multiple buried J-boxes. Single conductors run. Under the steps in the closet are 12 or so wire just cut. ceiling fans hung dangerously (tek screws in 8-32 holes) Cieling fan roughed in over hot tub, 4' over water level. I would like this Scumbag prosicuted, but of course I have no idea who did all of it, people don't like telling the irate electrician anything:mad: . Turning in people like this is no different then turning in a murderer-hes going to kill some one with his work. I was hesitant to report this to the AHJ as unpermitted work because it would be fairly obvious who did it, but I'm going to do it, let the chips fall where they may. this basement needs to be gutted and started over, God only knows what I havent found.
 
emahler said:
another thing to keep in mind...NJ has a plethora (go ahead, look it up) of inspectors who do work on the side, police officers who moonlight on their off days, firefighters who moonlight on their off days, etc.

what is their incentive to protect the legal contractor?
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Whatever their side act - if it involves home improvement, they need to follow the rules. Assuming they follow the rules, they would almost be expected to be more vigilant than a full-timer.
 
wirestretcher said:
The person who hires Jose and his mystery machine van to do under par electrical work for a reduced rate probably would not even consider paying you or somebody else the going rate for an electrician.
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Maybe so, but what that person doesn't realize is that they may be betting their life on one roll of the dice. A hack may be knowledgable about most of the work he/she is doing. But, if you look at the majority of us in the trade our knowledge is extensive and our abilities acute.

wirestretcher said:
Every one needs to make a living
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The hack, on the other hand, is doing work for less because he doesn't have to pay all the costs involved with having a license and running a ligit business. Hacks are OK as long as their in another trade that doesn't require a license.

I wouldn't go out of my way to turn in someone, who I know, is a licensed electrical contractor but doesn't have his license # on their truck. However, I would go out of my way to turn in a hack.
 
Ive got much more important things to worry about. I could care less if someone didn't have their truck lettered or have commercial plates. :roll:
 
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