OSHA enforces NFPA70E?

[redfish]

Re: OSHA enforces NFPA70E?

In a "work safe" environment, I've found that one should always utilize the proper PPE for the assigned task, hard hat, safety shoes, eye protection, fall protection, you name it. If it's available, use it, if it's not available, tell your boss to get it. Who cares if OSHA requires it, each individual should take on the responsibility to be safe and help his or her fellow worker to be safe as well. At the risk of sounding like a safety man (a position I have held in the past),safety is every ones business. We have all heard the horror stories about the guy who didn't wear his PPE and paid the ultimate price. Don't let it be you.

 

[realolman]

Re: OSHA enforces NFPA70E?



[ August 15, 2005, 06:32 AM: Message edited by: realolman ]

 

[physis]

Re: OSHA enforces NFPA70E?

It will never trickle down, until the electricians stop taking the unnecessary risks that many take each day. Every comment that says I have done this for x years with out any problems makes it take that much longer.
Don

It's not just people who say that they can do it so it's ok. I've worked for employers who insist you do it. Because the account can't turn the lights off, or whatever.

I wont stay in somebody's employ with that kind of an attitude but I don't know that everybody has the same choise.

I've also worked for companies who wouldn't allow a hotdog or anybody else to violate their safety protocols.

Out here where I'm at there doesn't seem to be any real oversite with nonunion operations. I went to work for a company once where I replaced a man who was fired because he chopped off a piece of MC in a suspended ceiling with a pair of side cutters, putting the hot conductor in contact with the sheath (I wonder if it was grounded) and an employee of that account ended up in the hospital because of it.

Obviously I wasn't privy to any legal concerns they might have faced. But, this outfit had me working on 277 live within a week or two.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Re: OSHA enforces NFPA70E?

Bob,

The idea of putting on gloves and a suit to check to see if a 24V relay is working correctly seems really excessive.

It is, but that type of PPE is not required for that task.
Don

 

[zmikc115]

Re: OSHA enforces NFPA70E?

Just wanted to respond to those who think the ppe is a waste of time or maybe too uncomfortable to use. We just received a report from a contractor we use that one of their employees is in the burn unit for second degree burns he suffered from a 480 volt arc flash because he was not wearing his ppe. They have very strict rules concerning this and he was fortunante that he was actually to the side of the bast or he might not be here today. We always think this happens to someone else in and this case he was the someone else. Im sure if you would ask him he would wear his ppe everytime now.
He will take a demotion in pay and skill and have the opportunity to repeat this again but I bet he won't. Just had another case similar to this one 3 months ago with a guy who had 30 yrs expirence who said he never had an expirence with arc flash and didnt need the heavy sweaty ppe he was still in burn unit just a few weeks ago. Too sad.

 

[realolman]

Re: OSHA enforces NFPA70E?

How did these accidents happen?

 

[zmikc115]

Re: OSHA enforces NFPA70E?

One of our service electricians was installing a driven ground to a 1200 amp service in a warehouse, the service had a cold water ground.
This driven ground was a bare # 6 copper conductor that he was installing from a ground rod to the main neutral buss. He was in the process of working the slack in the bare conductor towards the front of the gear, when the other end of the copper ground conductor came into contact with the lugs on the line side of the main breaker.
This was a older building and the transformer for Ga Power had no fuses on their secondary side, so he was basically causing a Arc Flash with 20,047 amps available fault current from the power company this is what they told me. Our electrician did not have on his PPE, he was burned on both of his arms from about the elbow to the wrist (2nd degree). He was fortunate that his face was behind a flat piece of sheet metal that was mounted inside the gear and had the ground fault relay, P.T. and fuse holder mounted on it, this acted as a shield and prevented the arc blast from burning his face bad. He is still in the Grady burn unit, he is OK, they are concerned about infection, but they are saying he looks good and will probably not need any grafting of skin, which is very good news. He was lucky that it was not worse. This a copy of what I know that happened to first guy.

 

[realolman]

Re: OSHA enforces NFPA70E?

I would like to preface my reply to this by saying that I do not mean to offend anyone. Regardless of my opinion of what anyone does or doesn't do, no one deserves to be burned in an accident, and I feel sorry for these guys.

I do not have any reference material available to me here at home, so I don't know, but the first thing that struck me regarding this is that the neutral grounding conductor is too small.

If it is too small, why is that relevent?
Was there appropriate technical supervision available in this job?

Secondly, I probably have not expressed it adequately,so I will do so now: I do not have any desire to work on anything hot. I agree 100 percent with this reg on that.

The only beef I have in all of this is troubleshooting.

Finally, the part I will no doubt get blasted for... Of course I don't know the specifics of this job, but the grounded conductor was probably not routed through the enclosure more than a couple of feet. It should certainly have been planned for the shortest route. As the electrician, you can not allow a bare ground wire to touch a 1200 amp 277v ungrounded conductor. You have got to have every inch of it accounted for, regardless of what you are wearing

That's your job, and your life.

[ August 20, 2005, 08:42 AM: Message edited by: realolman ]

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Re: OSHA enforces NFPA70E?

realolman

I do not have any reference material available to me here at home, so I don't know, but the first thing that struck me regarding this is that the neutral grounding conductor is too small.

It appears that the conductor involved in the accident was a grounding electrode conductor from a ground rod. #6 copper is the largest GEC required for a connection to a driven rod no matter how big the service is. 250.66(A).
Don

 

[petersonra]

Re: OSHA enforces NFPA70E?

it is kind of amazing that someone who ought to know better allowed a coil of bare wire around a 480V source.

but that is how accidents happen.

a split second of stupid is all it takes.

I once saw an accident that could have been tragic, although not fatal. I was with a mechanical techincian who was taking apart a fixture on a machine. Part of it would not come out and he started to take his safety glasses off so he could get a closer look at the part. For some reason he put his hand up on his glasses to take them off and then stopped, and left them on. he bent down very close to the part to get a better look and as he did, the thing came apart. It was under spring tension, and for some reason it decided to just fall apart. One piece hit him right in the middle of his safety glasses, and took a small chunk of the lense with it. he was completely uninjured, but a little shaken. If he had followed through with taking his safety glasses off, he might well have had a chunk of metal in his eye.

How many times have you taken your safety glasses off to get a better look at something?

These days, I wear them to mow the yard. I even bought a couple of pairs of safety glasses to use as sunglasses when mowing. this was after an employee of a customer got a chunk of metal in his eye while mowing his own yard. fortunately he did no lose the eye.

 

[realolman]

Re: OSHA enforces NFPA70E?

Of course you are right re: the # 6 GEC...

sorry. I stand corrected.

[ August 21, 2005, 09:12 AM: Message edited by: realolman ]