Outdoor Kitchen----Residential

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iwire said:
No need to explain, the NEC does not seem to apply at my home either. :D
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bottom line is, AHJ has final say-so. you might say my kitchen is not to NEC code, thats great, does not mean its not 100% safe. ;)
 
iwire said:
I agree, if is its attached.

Those screen enclosures are a big thing down there it seems? I cant say I have ever seen one around a pool here.



How about if it looks something like this?

contemporary-outdoor-kitchen-design-with-swimming-pool.jpg
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Seeing those 3 columns I'd say that probably is under a roof. Same building (same structure).

Screen enclosures are very big here. You won't have them because they can't handle a snow load.

qcroanoke said:
From the original post: I have a client who recently has two freestanding islands built outside that contain outdoor rated appliances. All high end stuff. Smoker, BBQ, food warmer, hot plate, and refrigerators.

The location is outside with no roof covering and is about 20' from the swimming pool.
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We don't call the screen enclosure a roof. A roof by definition provides weather protection for the building. A screen enclosure does not.

Rich dude in the keys? Swimming pool? $50k outdoor kitchen? Chances are he's not sitting out there getting bit by skeeters.
 
mgookin said:
Seeing those 3 columns I'd say that probably is under a roof. Same building (same structure).
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not if that roof is not permanently attached to the main dwelling/structure.
 
iwire said:
If the stuff hits the fan it will be the court that gets the final say.



I am a code guy at a code site. :)
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what exactly is the hazard bringing in three BC's (each gfi'd breaker) to a standalone outdoor kitchen?
 
iwire said:
How many circuits are running to this structure?
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Are these islands separate structures if they sit on a continuous deck/patio/concrete surface/asphalt surface/etc. as the pool and the rest of the house?

If you really want to stretch the definition of a single structure, look up 'eruv'. (Okay, an eruv is not a structure, it is a 'domain' surrounded by 'walls'....)

-Jon
 
winnie said:
Are these islands separate structures if they sit on a continuous deck/patio/concrete surface/asphalt surface/etc. as the pool and the rest of the house?
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Well if we replaced the simple kitchen counter with a tool shed I doubt anyone would call that the same structure as the house.
 
And the mailbox is a structure.
Does it have to meet setbacks?
Does it need a ground rod?
 
if nec followed the definitions of structures as defined by IBC this would allow for better granularity with nec code

structure.jpg
 
FionaZuppa said:
if nec followed the definitions of structures as defined by IBC this would allow for better granularity with nec code

structure.jpg
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Those are definitions of buildings.

The NEC deals with buildings and structures

Besides you are jumping to a conclusion that what we have does not work.

FWIW as far as I know the NEC definition of structure is changing in 2017
 
To summarize:

It is not yet clear if this tripping is because of low (near threshold) leakage current, so that random noise causes tripping, or if there is some intermittent event (say a defrost timer) causing much larger leakage current. It is not yet clear if the fault is in the circuit (say because of water ingress) or in the appliance.

The OP might benefit from splitting the loads into multiple circuits, because the ground fault leakage of each appliance and device is cumulative, so the fewer things connected to each GF sensor, the less the chance of a 'nuisance' trip.

If the OP decides to split the loads, it depends upon the specifics of the construction and the local understanding of what a _separate_ structure is to determine if this means a feeder and subpanel are required at each island.

-Jon
 
iwire said:
Those are definitions of buildings.
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nope, they are all types of "structures" according to IBC. all buildings are structures, not all structures are buildings, etc.

an outdoor kitchen would fall into Group-U

Utility and Miscellaneous Group U: uses intended for structures of an accessory character and not classified in any specific occupancy.
 
FionaZuppa said:
nope, they are all types of "structures" according to IBC. all buildings are structures, not all structures are buildings, etc.

an outdoor kitchen would fall into Group-U

Utility and Miscellaneous Group U: uses intended for structures of an accessory character and not classified in any specific occupancy.
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And that would not change any current NEC requirement, the structure still falls under 250.32(A)

Roger
 
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