Outdoor service panels versus indoor

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hbiss said:
EXACTLY. You beat me to it. This nonsense was started in southern CA, a state where nothing makes any sense anyway.

-Hal
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:lol:

Everything else being equal, I'd rather put the panel indoors. Vandalism/tampering isnt even in the equation, it's more a reliability/accessibility issue. Seem too many outdoors discos, panels, and boxes here corroded to the point of failure to purposefully choose to install one outside where indoors is a choice.
 
I've been doing residential in Colorado for almost forty years. I'd say at least 90% of panels in the Denver metro area are outdoors. Never thought a thing about it for years. Just the way it was.

Have had a lot of people from out of state ask me why. My guess #1 is economics. #2 most service is from rear lot and it's easy to put the panel and meter right there.

BTW still would do it. Semi custom or customs most often get a feed thru type exterior panel which still has some breakers outside.
 
So, what I'm hearing is the reason for locating the panel outside is a greedy EC or GC and it's easy. Not real good reasons. If the NEC was doing it's job instead of worrying about arc fault this would go away.

-Hal
 
outside main disconnect

outside main disconnect

In interior alaska (thrid world country :lol:) POCO requires combination meter base/ main disconnect outside building (for residential). Many times these will include 8 -12 branch breaker slots. Always have seen first sub panel inside, but could be outside . Reason for rule is for emergency disconnect with out pulling meter. Yes panel can be locked and first responders carry boltcutters with them.

LRB
 
hbiss said:
So, what I'm hearing is the reason for locating the panel outside is a greedy EC or GC and it's easy. Not real good reasons. If the NEC was doing it's job instead of worrying about arc fault this would go away.

-Hal
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I admit the thought of a resi panel facing outside sounds strange to me. I have only seen it once, when a friend flew my down to texas to fix something. IT took me a while to find the panel! I also initially thought "what a dumb idea". However look at all the OCPD's that are outside in commercial occupancies, meter packs on apartments....these 1.2 meg solar projects we do are in a field - aint no structure there. Further, Ill bet many basements that have panelboards are a far worse environment for equipment that outside.
 
I think environment makes a big difference.

I have replaced way more damaged outdoor panels than basement damaged panels (only one ever). I would never install one outdoors if there was any way around it. Typically here if a disconnect/main is required near the meter, that is what I install. The panel gets installed indoors where it is convenient for the homeowner and away from salt/water/snow environment. You people in southern California just don't get what happens in a humid environment!:lol:
 
FWIW, the NFPA did a study many years ago on failed circuit breakers and most of them came out of exterior panels (if I am remembering it correctly). When UL did the residential aging project, they encountered the same in the breakers they tested to UL489- those that failed the majority of the time came from exterior panels.


Personally I enjoy interior equipment in all regards.
 
ActionDave said:
What you are hearing is there is no legitimate, safety based reason to support your opinion.
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So, a HO standing in a flower bed during a pouring rain with the panel cover open and water running inside flipping breakers because the vacuum cleaner caused an AFCI breaker to trip isn't a safety issue?? :eek:hmy:

-Hal
 
hbiss said:
So, a HO standing in a flower bed during a pouring rain with the panel cover open and water running inside flipping breakers because the vacuum cleaner caused an AFCI breaker to trip isn't a safety issue?? :eek:hmy:

-Hal
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Provided he does not come in contact with anything live. With the dead front on like its supposed to be and the enclosure properly bonded I do not see that being an issue.
 
mbrooke said:
FWIW, the NFPA did a study many years ago on failed circuit breakers and most of them came out of exterior panels (if I am remembering it correctly). When UL did the residential aging project, they encountered the same in the breakers they tested to UL489- those that failed the majority of the time came from exterior panels.
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I seem to recall the primary failure mode was insects.
 
hbiss said:
So, a HO standing in a flower bed during a pouring rain with the panel cover open and water running inside flipping breakers because the vacuum cleaner caused an AFCI breaker to trip isn't a safety issue?? :eek:hmy:

-Hal
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If that is we need to stop putting receptacles outside.
 
I have seen this a couple times and wondered myself as I live hour and an half from Knoxville. Honestly though I believe that a meter/combo is the best thing ive seen in a number of years. I prefer them on all my installs but a totally different beast..

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Out here in the wild west we usually use a combination service panel on the exterior of the dwelling unit. I've been installing and servicing them for almost 40 years and I am at 6800' with snow and rain frequently. The service panels include the meter socket, main circuit breaker, and a distribution section that holds 12+ full sized breaker spaces and can be twinned-up as needed. These come in 100, 200 & 400 amp sizes and are available from all of the major manufacturers. GFCI circuit breakers have held up for decades in these panels and AFCIs seemed to be OK as well.

Out here we think that running service cables exposed up a wall to a weather-head with no mechanical protection is nuts; but there doesn't seem to be a big problem with it in the areas that do it that way. Out here the service entrance conductors are required to be in rigid steel conduit, period.

My point is that what works fine in one area may not be acceptable somewhere else but why must some folks go straight to the insults and bloviating? I visit this site to learn things and contribute now and then. Childish tantrums have no place here IMO.
 
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