Outdoor service panels versus indoor

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growler said:
I don't know Iwire, hbiss's opinion may seem a little strong but I think it may be shared by many potential home buyers. Sure they may save a couple of hunred on the install but may lose a good deal on resale value.

In an area where they are used to the outdoor panel it may not affect the home value but in some areas (like here) I'm thinking it would not be a wise choice.
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Who said anything about installing one where it was uncommon?

My point was simply this, while we are all entilited to, and specifically asked for our opinions on this topic and many of us including myself have said we prefer indoor panels.

Hal keeps going further, suggesting this practice is poor workmanship, is some sort of short cut people doing it take to profit unfairly from the work they do. Forgetting that many very outstanding and highly professional contractors do install panels outside and one can imagine they also have happy customers.
 
kwired said:
Many do forget that the average home buyer is not an electrician and may not notice this kind of thing. But once they do notice it what you mentioned can very well be true. How many trips is a person used to making to reset a breaker or change a fuse may have some impact on what they think as well.
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It is just as likely that a person that grew up in an area with outdoor panels would think an indoor panel is wrong.

Do you understand that entire regions have outdoor service panels?
 
I have never installed an outdoor panel on a residence and probably never will. Seems like a pretty dumb location for a service to me. Many of the ones that I have seen on the Internet are done with a 2" squeeze connector and 30 NM cables jammed into it which is a problem unto itself.

Having said all of that being on the outside is code compliant it's just not for me. :)
 
infinity said:
I have never installed an outdoor panel on a residence and probably never will. Seems like a pretty dumb location for a service to me. Many of the ones that I have seen on the Internet are done with a 2" squeeze connector and 30 NM cables jammed into it which is a problem unto itself.

Having said all of that being on the outside is code compliant it's just not for me. :)
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When the home is small or poorly designed so as not to have a wall that is practical for mounting and "feeding" the panel, I think the outside panel is a good option. NOW, as you say, bringing the conductors into this panel via a 5" "chase" nipple....
 
iwire said:
It is just as likely that a person that grew up in an area with outdoor panels would think an indoor panel is wrong.

Do you understand that entire regions have outdoor service panels?
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And those of us that live where it freezes 24" or more deep every winter think it is wrong to enter above grade with the water service as well:happyyes:

I would still bet those regions with outdoor service panels will still have an occasional one indoors. If anything on non residential properties.
 
tadavidson said:
When the home is small or poorly designed so as not to have a wall that is practical for mounting and "feeding" the panel, I think the outside panel is a good option. NOW, as you say, bringing the conductors into this panel via a 5" "chase" nipple....
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SE cable connector, chase nipple all non-code compliant methods that are used everyday with outdoor panels. If you mounted an outdoor panel on a house with a brick exterior how would you enter 30-40 cables into it in a code compliant manner?
 
infinity said:
SE cable connector, chase nipple all non-code compliant methods that are used everyday with outdoor panels. If you mounted an outdoor panel on a house with a brick exterior how would you enter 30-40 cables into it in a code compliant manner?
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Raceway(s) to an interior location (with THWN conductors installed) where a junction box can transition to NM cables.

Some residential only guys are allergic to running raceway though.
 
kwired said:
Raceway(s) to an interior location (with THWN conductors installed) where a junction box can transition to NM cables.

Some residential only guys are allergic to running raceway though.
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It seems to me by the time you do that it would have been easier to put the panel inside. :D
 
iwire said:
Who said anything about installing one where it was uncommon?

My point was simply this, while we are all entilited to, and specifically asked for our opinions on this topic and many of us including myself have said we prefer indoor panels.

Hal keeps going further, suggesting this practice is poor workmanship, is some sort of short cut people doing it take to profit unfairly from the work they do. Forgetting that many very outstanding and highly professional contractors do install panels outside and one can imagine they also have happy customers.
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I'll go one further and say that probably 98% of customers down south who buy a new house with one of these panels simply don't care one way or the other.

Yeah they might have to go outside to reset a breaker in the rain, but we're not exactly being covered up with complaints about panel location.
 
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infinity said:
It seems to me by the time you do that it would have been easier to put the panel inside. :D
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Maybe so. But then the transition junction box doesn't need to be readily accessible or have the working clearances the panel does.

That "old box was behind the refrigerator" situation can still use the old box as a junction box and a nipple to the outdoor panel.
 
kwired said:
Raceway(s) to an interior location (with THWN conductors installed) where a junction box can transition to NM cables.
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:happyyes: From panel, to and thru soffitt and go.....

infinity said:
If you mounted an outdoor panel on a house with a brick exterior....
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I do realize that throwing around unlikely scenarios to support a position isn't good and that what I'm typing below is rare and isn't supposed to happen in any proper compliant installation but..... -

One benefit that has been witnessed with the ext pb's, especially if mounted on a non combustible surface like brick, is that the panel has went thru the helter skelter meltdown, but much of the fire and smoke damage has been contained outside the structure.
 
kwired said:
Maybe so. But then the transition junction box doesn't need to be readily accessible or have the working clearances the panel does.

That "old box was behind the refrigerator" situation can still use the old box as a junction box and a nipple to the outdoor panel.
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The situation was a home fire, indoor panel was the old fuse type.
 
hbiss said:
Sure, while you and the GC are patting each other on the back where was the homeowner?

I wouldn't buy a house with an outdoor panel.

-Hal
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I bought a house with an outdoor panel, but the very first thing I did was move it to the basement, which is directly under where the meter is. I have no idea why the builder didn't install it down there in the first place. :?

I had to do a lot of rewiring (replacing home runs because the originals were then too short to reach the basement), took 2 days of work, but it was well worth it!
 
norcal said:
I would not live in a hell hole like New York. :lol:
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It's a dirty job but somebody has to do it!:happyyes:

iwire said:
Hal keeps going further, suggesting this practice is poor workmanship, is some sort of short cut people doing it take to profit unfairly from the work they do. Forgetting that many very outstanding and highly professional contractors do install panels outside and one can imagine they also have happy customers.
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Isn't that pretty much the excuse given throughout this thread? That and "it's always been done that way here".

As for happy customers, I suspect most of those don't even know what a panel is or where it is until something goes wrong.

-Hal
 
Outdoor panels are a last resort, especially for a main service panel in residential. Sometimes they are necessary, like for a pool panel or something on a post for an outdoor need (camper, etc.) But thankfully in my area they are not accepted as a standard way of doing things and that is because of the climate here.
 
It's just weird that people are all up in arms about this. By now it's been pointed out that there are different parts of the country where the norms are opposite. There's nothing wrong with it. People aren't suffering because what makes sense somewhere else wasn't done where they live. The notion that it would affect property value is BS in my opinion. 98% of homeowners wouldn't know or care about the difference. People will buy a home with an FPE and not know or care especially if the home inspector misses it and it's not in the disclosure docs. We electricians are the only people who care.
 
hbiss said:
It's a dirty job but somebody has to do it!:happyyes:



Isn't that pretty much the excuse given throughout this thread? That and "it's always been done that way here".

As for happy customers, I suspect most of those don't even know what a panel is or where it is until something goes wrong.

-Hal
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We care a lot!

 
jaggedben said:
It's just weird that people are all up in arms about this. By now it's been pointed out that there are different parts of the country where the norms are opposite. There's nothing wrong with it. People aren't suffering because what makes sense somewhere else wasn't done where they live. The notion that it would affect property value is BS in my opinion. 98% of homeowners wouldn't know or care about the difference. People will buy a home with an FPE and not know or care especially if the home inspector misses it and it's not in the disclosure docs. We electricians are the only people who care.
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:thumbsup:

I think I mentioned it earlier, I install a lot of outdoor panels on other then residential applications. Some of those applications is better to put the panel outdoors then inside the structure being served because of the environment indoors. For that matter, there is occasionally a dwelling that maybe is better to put it outdoors because of the environment indoors as well:eek:

If installing them outdoors were a major problem they might not make them in NEMA 3R or higher cabinets.
 
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