Oven Wire Size Question

[Carultch]

Looks like this one puts 0A on the neutral,
at least based on the European version of the same model.

Since European grids use between 220V and 240V to neutral, as the standard, it would make sense that the same circuit that powers the heating element, would power the controls and motors.

For a US version, it's very common that the oven would need to be adapted to both 208V and 240V, to work with both kinds of services available to residences (apartments for 208V and single/duplex homes for 240V). Heating power is only 3/4 the full capacity when running at 208V, unless there's a user configuration that modifies the heating element connections. Making a power supply for the controls and user interface that works on either voltage is easy, since switch-mode power supplies with flexible input voltages are very common today. Powering the motors is the hard part to make voltage-agnostic. You could use DC motors that are powered from the switch mode power supply, and that would allow it to be voltage-agnostic to work with anything from 208V to 240V.

 

[kwired]

This is a case where the NRTL should be notified so they can have corrections made in the docs. As mentioned here and in the previous post about this, in my view this is a chronic problem with all the NRTLs.

Who do you notify that will actually listen and look further into things? For one thing they likely get all sorts of calls with requests to do similar things but majority of them are people that don't fully understand what they are talking about and end up getting ignored in the end. What do you have to do to convince them you maybe have some credibility in what you are asking about?

 

[kwired]

You have made this claim before, but on what basis? As far as I know, there is no language in the NEC to that effect.

Cheers, Wayne

If the instructions are part of the listing....maybe? You are supposed to comply with any instructions included with the listing requirements. But this can get a little deep when it comes to determining whether the instructions are actually part of the listing? I've read many instructions that likely were not evaluated with any listing, so many are full of mistakes anymore even if just misspelling or mixed up wording even though they tried to get the right information there.

 

[Jpflex]

If the instructions are part of the listing....maybe? You are supposed to comply with any instructions included with the listing requirements. But this can get a little deep when it comes to determining whether the instructions are actually part of the listing? I've read many instructions that likely were not evaluated with any listing, so many are full of mistakes anymore even if just misspelling or mixed up wording even though they tried to get the right information there.

Can we explain the full meaning of “listing”

 

[Hv&Lv]

If the instructions are part of the listing....maybe? You are supposed to comply with any instructions included with the listing requirements. But this can get a little deep when it comes to determining whether the instructions are actually part of the listing? I've read many instructions that likely were not evaluated with any listing, so many are full of mistakes anymore even if just misspelling or mixed up wording even though they tried to get the right information there.

In this thread of the wrong instructions I simply wrote customer service. Their reply is attached

 

[Fred B]

Can we explain the full meaning of “listing”

2023 NEC article 100
Listed.
Equipment, materials, or services included in a list published by an organization that is acceptable to the authority having jurisdiction and concerned with evaluation of products or services, that maintains periodic inspection of production of listed equipment or materials or periodic evaluation of services, and whose listing states that either the equipment, material, or service meets appropriate designated standards or has been tested and found suitable for a specified purpose. (CMP-1)
Informational Note:
The means for identifying listed equipment may vary for each organization concerned with product evaluation, some of which do not recognize equipment as listed unless it is also labeled. Use of the system employed by the listing organization allows the authority having jurisdiction to identify a listed product.

 

[Jpflex]

2023 NEC article 100
Listed.
Equipment, materials, or services included in a list published by an organization that is acceptable to the authority having jurisdiction and concerned with evaluation of products or services, that maintains periodic inspection of production of listed equipment or materials or periodic evaluation of services, and whose listing states that either the equipment, material, or service meets appropriate designated standards or has been tested and found suitable for a specified purpose. (CMP-1)
Informational Note:
The means for identifying listed equipment may vary for each organization concerned with product evaluation, some of which do not recognize equipment as listed unless it is also labeled. Use of the system employed by the listing organization allows the authority having jurisdiction to identify a listed product.

So for a product to be “listed,” it has to be marked with UL for underwriters laboratory?

 

[augie47]

So for a product to be “listed,” it has to be marked with UL for underwriters laboratory?

"Marking" would be synonymous to the NEC's term for "Labeled"
Items can be listed but not labeled.
An listing can be by any acceptable NRTL not just UL.

Labeled. Equipment or materials to which has been attached a label, symbol, or other identifying mark of an organization that is acceptable to the authority having jurisdiction and concerned with product evaluation, that maintains periodic inspection of production of labeled equipment or materials, and by whose labeling the manufacturer indicates compliance with appropriate standards or performance in a specified manner