panel makeup

[ElectricianJeff]

The op's panel looks sweet. Do you guys leave a little slack for future repairs, both the feeders and branch circuits?

I like to put my 240's at the top and my single 120's at the bottom leaving the blanks in the middle. Makes adding a 240 later on a snap and if a 120 needs moved it can only go up and I just shorten the conductor.

I never had an inspector question this method.

 

[izak]

number circuits

number circuits

my father asked the same question about numbering circuits (hes an old wireman)

I dont see the point. if the wire is terminated on breaker #6, thats where it is, whether it has a number on it or not. numbering neutrals: Ive not ever been on a job or worked for anyone who requires or even mentions that practice, therefore i really dont have much to say about besides... what purpose does it serve?

as far as LEAVING SLACK FOR FURTURE ANYTHING:

The work that I produce is a finished product. There is no other work that needs to be done in that panel once we are done with that job except for changing out the occasional bad breaker - in which case the wire is where its supposed to be. as far as 'being able to move things around'...... WHY?
I ran a service truck for a little over a year, and ive done my share of adding circuits and blah blah blah.

the only time ive ever needed to 'move something around' was to get a breaker off of a fried peice of bus, or to add some piggyback breakers to a panel that was already overloaded....

so no, i dont leave any extra to move wires around. In my opinion, you can leave extra, or you can have a nice looking product. (but not both)

and to the guy who noted that employees seemed to be voting for #1 and employers for #2, I have no doubt that you are correct about that...

I guess i was looking for a little better response from the employers...
but in the end, I am not the least bit surprised in the results...


is

 

[ultramegabob]

numbering neutrals: Ive not ever been on a job or worked for anyone who requires or even mentions that practice, therefore i really dont have much to say about besides... what purpose does it serve?

labeling neutrals lets the person know what circuits are being affected if you need to disconnect the neutral for troubleshooting purposes, especially critical if its shared between phases and you go disconnecting the neutral with the other circuits still energized, frying equipment and causing a shock hazard to personel...

 

[izak]

why would you need to disconnect the neutral for troubleshooting purposes?

 

[ultramegabob]

why would you need to disconnect the neutral for troubleshooting purposes?

Do you do electrical work?

 

[480sparky]

why would you need to disconnect the neutral for troubleshooting purposes?

What doesn't work after you do that was on the circuits you're looking for.

 

[izak]

I am aware of the problems associated with lifting a 'neutral' from the bar in a hot panel, in fact i consider it to be more dangerous when it is live than a hot bus bar.

 

[izak]

ultramegabob:

Excuse me?

 

[izak]

someone give me a scenario where lifting a neutral from the neutral bar would be helpful in troubleshooting?

 

[mdshunk]

someone give me a scenario where lifting a neutral from the neutral bar would be helpful in troubleshooting?

Megging a circuit or toning a circuit with certain equipment.

 

[ultramegabob]

ultramegabob:

Excuse me?

are you asking serious questions or just provoking?

 

[izak]

serious questions

ive not had to lift a landed neutral to do any troubleshooting anytime. the only time ive had to do that is to install a gfci/afci breaker
in the type of work I do, afci breakers are non-existent, and gfcis nearly so.

marc you are right but i rarely see those two done after a panel is made up. we megger our stuff prior to termination, usually

 

[izak]

it seems that we are getting away from my original question... i was looking for an average view of
HOW LONG should it take to make up that panel,
and HOW LONG in general should it take to make up a panel

and would the ECs accept 3 to 4 hours for make-up on a panel in general

the one i work for does....

 

[iwire]

would the ECs accept 3 to 4 hours for make-up on a panel in general.

That sounds excessive to me but I really don't know what you include in 'panel make up'.

 

[mdshunk]

and would the ECs accept 3 to 4 hours for make-up on a panel in general

the one i work for does....

Maybe now, but I'd be willing to bet that his grinning and bearing it hoping you'll pick up the speed at some point. About a minute per panel space is a good rule of thumb for solid wire, and 2 minutes per panel space for stranded wire where you're normally also zip tying and labeling. If the "makeup" also involves installing connectors and stripping out MC or NM to put though the connectors, add another minute per cable. Three or four hours might go over for a little bit, but don't bet on it for long.

 

[BryanMD]

The other factor is that *while* the obsessive compulsive is spending all that time at the panel he is (or should be) also directing the work of the newer guys at the same time. If he is stuck in a mech closet or a basement by himself all that time... call the extra time a "mental health" respite from the boom boxes.

 

[360Youth]

45-90 minutes for a panel make-up. I did a change out the other day and no where neat as I would like but getting done and power back on becomes the priority.

 

[hardworkingstiff]

labeling neutrals lets the person know what circuits are being affected if you need to disconnect the neutral for troubleshooting purposes, especially critical if its shared between phases and you go disconnecting the neutral with the other circuits still energized, frying equipment and causing a shock hazard to personel...

If the conductors were not bundled, then tracing the neutral from a certain conduit or cable would be so simple a tagged neutral conductor would not be required.

(I guess you figured I'm not a fan of bundling).

 

[mark32]

Good topic, back to my inquire though about leaving service slack. When I started in the trade I never left slack in panels, disconnects, etc. Now when I, say change out a breaker, I don't like reusing the same crimped up end so I almost always cut it off and re strip it, so if there is no slack I may move the breaker in question but I'd prefer to have the slack.

 

[izak]

marc I can tell from your statement of "one minute per panel space" that you put quantity in front of quality.

I value Quality above ALL and while im doing it as best I can, it is always at the front of my mind to get it done as fast as i can without sacrificing quality.

The president of the company i work for told me a couple days ago that if it costs one dollar to do it right the first time, it will cost 10 dollars to fix it if it wasnt done right.

he also told me a few months back that "you can hardly take too much time making up a panel, or an electrical room" (something that will stand out as representative of our work)

usually when I get done I sign my name in a panel. As well as the company's name.