Panel setup

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LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
That is 400 amps of 120 volt loads.
It is mathematically, obviously, but you could not actually deliver 400a at 120v, unless you were to parallel the two 120v secondaries of a dual-secondary transformer (of sufficient capacity) and provide a single conductor pathway capable of carrying 400a.
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
No it is not. If you have (2) 1/2 ton trucks, you do not say you have '1 ton' of capacity.
Infinity's point is that you actually could say that, but we agree that it's difficult to drive with a load that is being carried by two trucks.

Added: It depends on whether the one-ton load can be divided into two half-ton loads.
 
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LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Let make it simple I have 20-20 amp, 120 volt heaters (400 amps total) can I hook them up to a 200 amp, 120/240 volt panel?
First, I'm guessing you meant two 200a heaters, so based on that:

Second, yes, you can supply two 200a 120v heaters from a 200a 120/240v source.

But, you can not supply one 400a 120v heater from a 200a 120/240v source.
 

ggunn

PE (Electrical), NABCEP certified
Location
Austin, TX, USA
Occupation
Consulting Electrical Engineer - Photovoltaic Systems
Let make it simple I have 20-20 amp, 120 volt heaters (400 amps total) can I hook them up to a 200 amp, 120/240 volt panel?
Yes, but it would be a 200A 240V load. It might be easier to grasp if you thought of it in terms of power rather than current.
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Of course, but bottom line you can supply 400 amps of 120 stuff - and no I'm not even entertaining the idea of needing to run a single 400A 120v load 😉
You could supply 800a at 60v if you wanted to. There's a difference between a service ampacity and how you can divvy up loads placed on it.

The point is that the service capacity is whatever it is at the delivered voltage, not what mathematical equivalence it could be converted to.
 

ggunn

PE (Electrical), NABCEP certified
Location
Austin, TX, USA
Occupation
Consulting Electrical Engineer - Photovoltaic Systems
The side that's saying that 200 x 240 = 400 x 120 proves that 200a at 240v IS 400a at 120v.
Well, yes, it is. In the scenario of twenty 20A heaters, each pair of them, one on one 120V leg and the other on the other, is a single 20A load at 240V. The same 20A is flowing through both of them and the neutral current is zero. They do not load the service with 40A.
 

ggunn

PE (Electrical), NABCEP certified
Location
Austin, TX, USA
Occupation
Consulting Electrical Engineer - Photovoltaic Systems
Which is why we shouldn't say that 200a @ 240v is 400a @120v, especially in front of newbies.
But it is. Since voltage is held constant by the utility, a panel OCPD is perhaps better called an OPPD (Over Power Protective Device). For the 20A heaters example if power rather than current is considered, the answer is (more) obvious. One does not add current on one leg with current on the other, but power is additive. Being a newbie is no reason not to learn how electricity works.
 

Sea Nile

Senior Member
Location
Georgia
Occupation
Electrician
I think I understand, if you have a 100 Amps on A leg, and 100 amps on B leg, (no imbalance so 0 Amps coming back on neutral).

The "same"amperage on A is also going through B. The electrons go through both legs before returning to the source and the current is constant in a circuit.

Because you essentially have A and B connected in series (with nothing coming back on neutral)

So the transformer or generator is only putting out 100 amps in this scenario. So it's not additive.
 
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ggunn

PE (Electrical), NABCEP certified
Location
Austin, TX, USA
Occupation
Consulting Electrical Engineer - Photovoltaic Systems
I think I understand, if you have a 100 Amps on A leg, and 100 amps on B leg, (no imbalance so 0 Amps coming back on neutral).

The "same"amperage on A is also going through B. The electrons go through both legs before returning to the source and the current is constant in a circuit.

Because you essentially have A and B connected in series (with nothing coming back on neutral)

So the transformer or generator is only putting out 100 amps in this scenario. So it's not additive.
By George, he's got it! :D

Power, on the other hand does add for the two legs. In your example you have (100A)(120V) = 12000W on A leg and the same on B leg for a total of 24000W, the same as it would be for a 100A load at 240V. Three phase works the same way.
 
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jim dungar

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Wisconsin
Occupation
PE (Retired) - Power Systems
I don't want to speak for Rob, but I'm pretty sure he grasps it 😇. It seems some of the engineer types are having a little trouble grasping field calculations......
Correlation does not always mean causation

(2) 1.5x3x10 pieces of strut, do not provide the same number of 4' lengths as (1) 1.5x3x20 piece even though they contain the same total feet

(8) 2000 lumen fixtures, mounted at 9' do not have the same light distribution as (16) 1000 lumen fixtures, even though they have the same total output.

(1) electrician for 8 hours cannot always do the same work as (2) electricians for 4 hours, even though the total labor cost is the same.
 
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Correlation does not always mean causation

(2) 1.5x3x10 pieces of strut, do not provide the same number of 4' lengths as (1) 1.5x3x20 piece even though they contain the same total feet

(8) 2000 lumen fixtures, mounted at 9' do not have the same light distribution as (16) 1000 lumen fixtures, even though they have the same total output.

(1) electrician for 8 hours cannot always do the same work as (2) electricians for 4 hours, even though the total labor cost is the same.
What does that have to do with what we are taking about?🤔
 
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