photos from my first plastic & wirenut job!

Status
Not open for further replies.
Flux..... The rosin type - a damp rag while still warm (NOT HOT!) will take it right off, and if you leave a little so what.... (better not to)

Acid - you had better get it off and good - same way - maybe do that while still hot with a glove (due to steam burns).... But don't recommend acid flux.
 
Last edited:
e57 said:
With the K&T splices I find myself doing all too often - I usually scrape the conductor bare - then splice - then flux - then solder. Just copper to copper as the joint - the flux will flush out anything laying around the splice and allow the solder to flow, but not get between the two (or more) pieces of copper IMO. The copper is usually wrenched tight against each other. I think if you got a cross-section it wouldn't have any solder in between - might need a microscope to check though....
Click to expand...
Any that I have untwisted have been completely coated with solder, but I have not looked at it with a microscope.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
Any that I have untwisted have been completely coated with solder, but I have not looked at it with a microscope.
Click to expand...

The point of contact will be one line for two conductors, at least two with more than two conductors. The idea is to have the length of that point of contact be equal to or greater than the circumference of the conductor. Ideal - would be to equal the area of the conductor. Twist enough to deform the conductor to widen that line all the better. Solder at that point is only sealing that point of contact.

See attachment:
 
Last edited:
e57 said:
The point of contact will be one line for two conductors, at least two with more than two conductors. The idea is to have the length of that point of contact be equal to or greater than the circumference of the conductor. Ideal - would be to equal the area of the conductor. Twist enough to deform the conductor to widen that line all the better.

See attachment:
Click to expand...


Not circumference....cross-sectional area.
 
One more pic'

attachment.php
 
480sparky said:
Not circumference....cross-sectional area.
Click to expand...

Circumference!!! It's good enough IMO for a min. I did mention "area" being ideal but not necessary IMO - and easy moderate length. For instance if you put a conductor on a terminal screw 2/3's around - tightened on both sides - odds are that it will be more than circumference, but less than area - and acceptable.... (Whats that number 3.14????*R*2) A splice that long for #12 would be about an inch long and > than the area.
 
I'm not old enough to have done that old time work. Methods changed by the time I got my start 50 years ago... But I did work around some of those old timers, and saw work they had done years before - they would point out how things used to be. WOW !! They had a completely different outlook in those days. Pride in their craft really showed.... don't get me wrong, there were some dregs of humanity, but if you worked hard, wanted to learn, and did not have an attitude they would help you all they could. One old timer, I think he was 63, I was 20, would take his lunch hour to explain things and try to teach me. I saw such beautiful conduit work - guys on this website make fun of that quality. It must be jealousy. Times change, conditions change, just because it is the new way does not necessarily mean better, generally it means it is faster. The last 20 years of my working career I spent correcting the mistakes made by engineering and construction before a new power plant could operate. I never blame these mistakes on the engineers or the construction electricians - it is the system in which we operate today. In to much of a hurry to do it right.
Never saw a bad s & t connection. Guess they must have been repaired. I am sure you really knew where the other end of that wire was before you took all that time to s & t... I found lots of mistakes with wire nuts connecting the wrong wires.
 
RHJohnson said:
I am sure you really knew where the other end of that wire was before you took all that time to s & t... I found lots of mistakes with wire nuts connecting the wrong wires.
Click to expand...

everyone should have a proper labeling system (i do this by crimping wires in a certain fashion) and a consistent method of wire placement; as in certain wires go in specific holes drilled above or below, the same way every time. and it has to be taught so that if one guy's pulling wire and another is making connections, he has no questions about what he's hooking up.
 
e57,
It is my opinion that the solder does not just seal the point of contact, it completely coats the point of contact and is the current path.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
e57,
It is my opinion that the solder does not just seal the point of contact, it completely coats the point of contact and is the current path.
Click to expand...

If you have two metallic items mashed together tight - as they should be - how does it get in there? It'll definately fill gaps yes - but get in between - no IMO.

I'm gonna have to go make a splice and grind it down - or pull it apart.....

Just took a grinder to one - exceptionally difficult to keep the temp down and not re-melt the solder - but in the gaps have solder - between, not that I can see between the wire where they are in contact - if there is it's microscopic....
 
Last edited:
e57 said:
If you have two metallic items mashed together tight - as they should be - how does it get in there? It'll definately fill gaps yes - but get in between - no IMO.

I'm gonna have to go make a splice and grind it down - or pull it apart.....

Just took a grinder to one - exceptionally difficult to keep the temp down and not re-melt the solder - but in the gaps have solder - between, not that I can see between the wire where they are in contact - if there is it's microscopic....
Click to expand...


it could be possible that heat expansion allows the solder to get between the conductors. but it isn't enough to cause problems on a 15-20A branch circuit.
 
I took 3 12's - pig-tailed and soldered it - then ground it down in a cross-section - I did not see any between conductors where there were pressed together. Not saying there wasn't any - but solder even hot is a viscous liquid - but did not appear to get into the flatened areas where the conductors where pressed by twisting them together.
 
e57 said:
I took 3 12's - pig-tailed and soldered it - then ground it down in a cross-section - I did not see any between conductors where there were pressed together. Not saying there wasn't any - but solder even hot is a viscous liquid - but did not appear to get into the flatened areas where the conductors where pressed by twisting them together.
Click to expand...

don't be mistaken, i wasn't disagreeing with you. I believe you when you say there was no solder in the contact area; I can't recall ever seeing any there myself. I'm just saying it could be possible. But if someone where to heat the conductors enough to allow expansion between the contact area, they most likely did serious damage to the copper.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top