plugmould & undercabinet lighting

[IrishRugger]

Quick question, The designer for a project I'm working on called to ask if I want the custom cabinets they are having made for this particular project to have a false bottom so plugmould and under cabinet lights can be installed without having wire exposed. I plan to mount plugmould under cabinets and lights as well I understand that one may be in the way of the other. should I have them put in a false bottom, if so how deep? Plugmould was a specific choice of the homeownerand designer they have been adiment about this since the rough in and I wire accordingly. Sorry about any spelling or grammatical errors in this post. I appreciate your feed back.

 

[Sharpie]

If the home owner wants it and spec'd it, give them what they want.
Is the plugmold GFCI protected?

 

[Sharpie]

I may have just mis-read your question. Sorry.

 

[Rewire]

We did cabinets that had a false bottom for wires only,the plug mold and lights mounted to the cabinet underside and the wire was in the false bottom space

 

[IrishRugger]

If the home owner wants it and spec'd it, give them what they want.
Is the plugmold GFCI protected?

Yes it will be at the breaker (GFCI breaker) or using a GFCI blank device most likely at the panel or in utility room

 

[electricmanscott]

What year NEC are you under?


I have done plugmold and u/c lights plenty of times with no false bottom needed. Doesn't sound like a bad idea though.

Usually the cabinets I deal with are flat on the bottom and the kitchen guys install a light valance around the bottom.

 

[frogneck77]

Ive done puck lts in houses where the carpenters have installed a false bottom to line up with the reveal at the front of the cabinet- which is usually 1" I believe. You could then recess or surface mount the plugmold

 

[iwire]

What year NEC are you under?

That is the all important question. :smile:

 

[stickboy1375]

Ive done puck lts in houses

Might not want to tell anyone that...

 

[goldstar]

This has been discussed many times here in the forum. Aside from what issue NEC you're working under, working with plugmold under cabinets is a bear. I'm sure you already know the relative difficulty in working with #12 solid in std. JB's but picture what the difficulty is in working with # 12 in plugmold. You're screwing the plugmold into the bottom of a cabinet that's probably 1/2" to 3/4" flakeboard. Make sure you use 1/2" screws. They make special (European type) screw connectors for the plugmold. They fit exactly in the end spaces so make sure you use them and not wire nuts. If you're intent on being code compliant (as we all assume you are) you'll have to use metal RX connectors or Arlingtom black buttons. If you're feeding from one plugmold to another use the connectors to go out the other end. If not, you'll have to individually feed the # 12's (per wiremold strip) down to a JB in the basement and splice them together.

The long and short of this is that if your customer (or architect) doesn't want to see receptacles on the backsplash they'll have to pay the price (especially in your installation cost - because you can be rest assured that it will take you longer to install this) by having to go back to the breaker panel to reset due to a GFCI trip and a GFCI breaker is about 3-4 times the cost of a GFCI receptacle.

My advice - get paid for what you are doing or talk them out of doing this.

There are others in the forum community that love doing this stuff but I don't.

Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[LarryFine]

The long and short of this is that . . . they'll have to pay the price . . . by having to go back to the breaker panel to reset due to a GFCI trip . . .

This is not a universal truth. Most kitchens have several seldom-used wall receptacle outlets where there are no cabinets. It's easy enough to place home-run-supplied GFCI receptacles in each one with the load terminals feeding the strips.

 

[marcerrin]

I put plugmold under cabs almost always now. Instead of a false bottom I have the cabinet guy put a strip of wood at a 45 degree angle against the wall under the cabinet and I set the plug strip facing down at an angle. My customers love it. I put the GFI's in the pantry, behind the door. As for the #12 solid being hard to work with; wiremold makes a "Wago" type connector that fits perfectly into plugmold (three of them fit side-by -side). If anyone is interested can dig up a part number for them.

 

[JohnJ0906]

Just a reminder of 210.52(C)(5). Make sure the plugmold is 20" or less above the countertop.

 

[goldstar]

Most kitchens have several seldom-used wall receptacle outlets where there are no cabinets. It's easy enough to place home-run-supplied GFCI receptacles in each one with the load terminals feeding the strips.

I suppose you're right Larry. I wasn't thinking out of the box, but plugmold under a cabinet is still a bear to work with. Normally you would stand straight up to wire a receptacle. Installing plugmold you'll have to lay on your back on the counter-top to install it. All I'm saying is "get paid for what you are providing and installing". From my experience this requirement usually isn't brought to the forefront at the time of the initial bid but rather at the time you begin wiring the kitchen. Most builders have this notion that there's no difference between wiring a back-splash receptacle and installing plugmold under a cabinet and as a result see no difference in cost. Then you have to go through long and drawn out negotiations trying to get paid an extra that you rightfully deserve.

As for the #12 solid being hard to work with; wiremold makes a "Wago" type connector that fits perfectly into plugmold (three of them fit side-by -side).

Those are the connectors I'm talking about. Still a bear to work with no matter how you look at it.

 

[electricmanscott]

I put plugmold under cabs almost always now. Instead of a false bottom I have the cabinet guy put a strip of wood at a 45 degree angle against the wall under the cabinet and I set the plug strip facing down at an angle. My customers love it.

Or you could just use this.....unless you are under 2008 NEC or in NC where they prefer kids be electrocuted

http://www.tasklighting.com/ap/angle-strip.htm

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Instead of a false bottom I have the cabinet guy put a strip of wood at a 45 degree angle against the wall under the cabinet and I set the plug strip facing down at an angle.

You should check this out.

Angle Plugmold

wiremold makes a "Wago" type connector that fits perfectly into plugmold (three of them fit side-by -side). If anyone is interested can dig up a part number for them.

I have contacted the wiremold salesman about a year ago and he tells me they don't make those connectors anymore. If you have a part number I would love to have it , Thanks.

 

[electricmanscott]

It's ok Dennis, many want to be like me but none can keep up. :wink: :grin:

By the way, that picture clearly demonstrates why plugmold in this application stinks. Hanging cords will always look worse than a receptacle hidden behind the appliance.

Not to mention the hideous tile.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

It's ok Dennis, many want to be like me but none can keep up. :wink: :grin:

I guess I was preparing mine while you posted.

I had to edit myself but you can imagine my response to your last words.

 

[blue spark]

Or you could just use this.....unless you are under 2008 NEC or in NC where they prefer kids be electrocuted

http://www.tasklighting.com/ap/angle-strip.htm

Now that's something I could sell. Thanks for the link!

 

[electricmanscott]

I guess I was preparing mine while you posted.

I had to edit myself but you can imagine my response to your last words.

I can't possibly imagine how you would respond..:grin:



Note to lovers of plugmold....There are currently no plugmold models that can be installed in a dwelling to comply with the 2008 NEC that I am aware of (and I have tried to find some). Just something to keep in mind.