Policing the industry

[jrannis]

Thats good, the only problem I have is the comparison of an ER with a EC.

Im not quite sure what you are getting at?
Maybe when he used the term "better yet"?

Could be that you don't hassled as much as an EC. I do consider myself better off with an EC, than when I had my ER, for the type of work I do.

 

[Dolfan]

Im not quite sure what you are getting at?
Maybe when he used the term "better yet"?

Could be that you don't hassled as much as an EC. I do consider myself better off with an EC, than when I had my ER, for the type of work I do.

I'm just saying that, I know of EC who are out of business and ER who are going strong. The customer doesn't care about that screwed up classification. Depending on the circumstances of the kind of work you want, having a EC license in not the end all. Comparing the quality of one shop to another with the type of licence is stupid. You know that Dade County is the size of some states in population and all that is needed to do electrical work is a ER licence.

 

[Teaspoon]

talk about touchy The great State of TN advises the inspectors that if they have no permit they can not go on the property. So, if we see some jack-leg stringing wire we wave and drive on. In essence the only inspection is on contractors who obey the rules and pull permits or on new construction where there is no power and POCO requires inspections before hooking those up.

I agree this Is not in the best interest of home owners in the State of Tennessee. Tennessee is home to me and I make my living doing Electrical work .But we are making progress with electrical safety. I will admit that much needs to be done to improve safety in the homes in our state.
A much needed crack down on unlicensed work would be a great help.
We need stiffer fines and penalties on those doing this unlawful work.
There should also be some way of making home owners aware of the dangers
of this boot leg work. And them assumeing responsiability for their own well being.

 

[Rockyd]

Exactly. In Iowa, you must have filed for a Homestead exemption in order to consider it your home. And you can only have one exemption. And you must live there a year to get it.

See?

This is where local government is far better than "big brother" ( the government that governs least, governs best). Evidently the state had a problem with "flippers", and they moved to fix it. As long as a small time, non corporate person, is stable to that community, is helping, rather than hindering the town, city, or county.

If you think, for one moment, that through the power of law, your going to foist your business upon me, take a hike. If your that good, everyone will know who you are, and will be calling you. It's called an established reputation, and we all know that "word of mouth" is priceless advertising.



" If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands that which feed you. May your chain be set lightly upon you and posterity forget ye were our countrymen."


Sam Adams

 

[nhfire77]

Landlord Law 101

Landlord Law 101

I think y'all are missing the point. Just someone owning a house doesn't make him the homeowner unless he actually lives there (or is planning to). If he's rehab-ing it to rent, it's not his home, especially if he's obviously living elsewhere.

Either way, ya still need the permits, and probably the license.

Excuse me, I own rental property, before its rented and no tenants are in it, its mine. I am the homeowner. I don't have to live there to make it mine. I have never rented it and the deed is in my name.

Even if I am planning on renting it, I haven't yet and you cannot assume what I am planning on doing with it. I may as well be fixing it up and moving my wife in(without me)!!!!!

I can tell the all the different inspectors I am moving in when its done, and that could be true. Then I change my mind. It my right, its mine. Once the EI has passed and signed the card, and then I change my mind, that does not invalidate the passing inspection. Unless there is some crazy local law requiring all the HO work be ripped out and redone by an EC. In which case, I would not own property there. I would take my money somewhere else.

Once its rented and tenants have moved in, then, by law its different. I cannot perform electrical work in my tenants unit, or if I am preparing to rent it for a second time, but, initially, its mine. If, the homeowner is allowed to get a permit, then you can do all the work.

Once its been rented, and you plan on having new tenants in, then it changes.

 

[PetrosA]

As someone who works in a region where lots of homes have been worked on by the homeowners, I have to say I don't think ANYONE should be allowed to do electrical, carpentry or other building work unless they can prove they have the qualifications to do so and meet all the local laws. We're on a job right now where the homeowner added a second floor addition himself 10 years ago, and there are whole sections of roof without support, wiring done lord-knows-how, etc. Now, after a divorce, the second floor is finally getting done, and thankfully the weekend warrior didn't get drywall up so we can fix things pretty easily.

 

[nhfire77]

As someone who works in a region where lots of homes have been worked on by the homeowners, I have to say I don't think ANYONE should be allowed to do electrical, carpentry or other building work unless they can prove they have the qualifications to do so and meet all the local laws. We're on a job right now where the homeowner added a second floor addition himself 10 years ago, and there are whole sections of roof without support, wiring done lord-knows-how, etc. Now, after a divorce, the second floor is finally getting done, and thankfully the weekend warrior didn't get drywall up so we can fix things pretty easily.

That's a slightly different issue. I think you should be able to any work you want, but it has to pass an inspection for safety. So, if, it was done unsafe, IMO, then that's not cool.

My previous post addresses a previous post that an IBEW guy was buying houses fixing them and renting them out.

 

[hillbilly]

See?

" If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands that which feed you. May your chain be set lightly upon you and posterity forget ye were our countrymen."

Sam Adams

Amen

steve

 

[zbang]

Excuse me, I own rental property, before its rented and no tenants are in it, its mine. I am the homeowner. I don't have to live there to make it mine. I have never rented it and the deed is in my name.

I don't know where you're coming from here, since I never said that it wasn't owned by/titled to you, I don't know about New Hampshire, but in many places "homeowner" means owner and occupant (as principal residence) of that property. In taxation, you can only claim one property at a time for a homeowner's exemption. (Rental condos may be treated differently.)

Even if I am planning on renting it, I haven't yet and you cannot assume what I am planning on doing with it. I may as well be fixing it up and moving my wife in(without me)!!!!!

True, and some codes seem to make exceptions for that, but if you live in one property, then buy another using a not-my-home loan, it's going to be pretty hard to convince anyone that it's not going to be rented. As I did say, you probably still need the permits, and might need to use a licensed contractor to do the work.

Either way, I'm not a lawyer and nhfire probably isn't either. This isn't legal advice. Obtain advice from a licensed professional if you really need it .

 

[MrMilbank]

I decided I'm not gonna get involved with ratting people out doing work without permits, i figure its gonna catch up with them or not and im not involved in any way. I just know why its important to get a permit even working on my own home. and when when i do work requiring a permit on someone elses home i am required to get a permit.

 

[petersonra]

I have no choice but to call on Monday and turn him in.

Actually, you made a choice to make the call. You have no general obligation to report these kind of things, short of some kind of local rule that requires you to rat people out in these circumstances.

I am not suggesting you made the wrong choice. just that you did indeed make a choice. Pretending otherwise is not being honest.

 

[charlietuna]

Years ago the local fire department began yearly inspections on commercial buildings and i was suprised that it created quite a bit of work in our area. And i believe local building inspections should have some type inspection to correct the big picture items especially obvious life safety items like landscape lighting and damaged parking lot equipment,etc.

 

[G0049]

Excuse me, I own rental property, before its rented and no tenants are in it, its mine. I am the homeowner. I don't have to live there to make it mine. I have never rented it and the deed is in my name.

Around here you could probably get away with that a time or two until they started to recognize you at the permit desk. Here's a couple of quotes from the permit request:

"Homeowners Affidavit
I hereby certify the electrical work described on this permit application shall be installed by myself in my own single family dwelling in which I am living or about to occupy. All work shall be installed in accordance with the State Electrical code and shall not be enclosed, covered up, or put into operation until it has been inspected and approved by the County Electrical Inspector. I will cooperate with the county electrical Inspector and assume the responsibility to arrange for necessary inspection."

And:

"APPLICANT SIGNATURE
Section 23A of the State Construction Code Act of 1972; 1972 PA 230, MCL 125.1523A, prohibits a person from conspiring to circumvent the licensing requirements of this state relating to persons who are to perform work on a residential building or a residential structure. Violators of Section 23A are subjected to civil fines."

The local EI also told me that, under a homeowners permit, the work has to be done by the homeowner. You can't hire someone else, even a licensed electrican or contractor, to work on it.

 

[brantmacga]

talk about touchy The great State of TN advises the inspectors that if they have no permit they can not go on the property. So, if we see some jack-leg stringing wire we wave and drive on. In essence the only inspection is on contractors who obey the rules and pull permits or on new construction where there is no power and POCO requires inspections before hooking those up.

Not here. We have the "Community Development Investigation Division".

The "Code Compliance Investigators" drive around looking for signs of construction work. They, along with all the inspectors, have laptops linked up to city hall so they can check to see if a permit has been pulled for the address. If not, they don't even knock; just walk right in and start writing citations. I would imagine that's completely illegal, but I guess no one has challenged them yet.

I'm told they catch most of the offenders on weekends, but I haven't verified that.

 

[cowboyjwc]

I would like to follow up on this, after rereading it, it makes me SICK to think that someone thought this would be reasonable and constitutional.

(Kevin, unless you wrote this code, I am not directing my opinion at you)

The city/town/county lawyers either never read this or are stupid.

Most cities around here have a full legal department and they run this stuff by them first. Unless it was a town warrant/citizen petition, it which case the citizens are stupid, and I leave it at that.

It's actually in Article 89 of the California Electrical Code, though our city did not adopt that Article. It used to be in the Uniform Administrative Code which we did adopt in whole.

 

[fondini]

amen+1!!!!!

 

[brian john]

What about illegal search and seizure, police need search warrants why should an inspector be any different. Did we give up our rights when Tesla, Westinghouse and Edison strung a few wires here and there.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

What about illegal search and seizure, police need search warrants why should an inspector be any different. Did we give up our rights when Tesla, Westinghouse and Edison strung a few wires here and there.

No we didn't. In the absence of a permit or an obvious life safety issue, the inspector needs permission or a warrant to enter the property. I understand that there are many areas that have laws that state otherwise, but they are unconstitutional and would be tossed out if anyone challenged them in court. Often the challenge never happens because of the cost of litigation and the local authorities continue to violate people's rights.

 

[peter d]

No we didn't. In the absence of a permit or an obvious life safety issue, the inspector needs permission or a warrant to enter the property.

Just curious but how does a permit negate the need for a warrant? I would think that even with a permit, a warrant or permission would still be required.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Just curious but how does a permit negate the need for a warrant? I would think that even with a permit, a warrant or permission would still be required.

The act of getting a permit is a permission for inspection in most cases.