Pool Bonding Lugs

[Jimmy7]

I wired an inground pool for a friend of mine a little while back. The pool has steel walls and a liner with brick pavers as its decking. Rather than just bonding four corners of the pool, I installed copper direct burial lay-in lugs at each metal wall section of the pool walls. The pool walls are steel, I'm guessing galvanized steel. I also installed the copper grid under the pavers. I have been learning about solar lately and there is a lot of talk about dissimilar metals, so that got me thinking about the pool walls. As a result I contacted Hubbell, and they stated I could use the CL-50 DB Copper lugs on the pool walls if "I use Penetrox A on the mating surfaces, or use their CL501TN lug that is Tin plated". The pool is done, so I hadn't used the Penetrox A, or the Tin Plated Lugs.

As a result, my questions are this. Is this something I need to worry about? Should I see if I can install additional tin plated lugs where I can?

Thanks..

 

[kwired]

If direct burial rated chances are the lugs are probably bronze and not copper?

If so I think that you are still ok with what you have.

 

[Jimmy7]

Am I correct and saying that you really only have to bond the steel pool walls in four spots, not all the sections?

 

[petersonra]

Am I correct and saying that you really only have to bond the steel pool walls in four spots, not all the sections?

Curiously, the size of the pool does not seem to matter either

 

[Jimmy7]

Curiously, the size of the pool does not seem to matter either

The pool is about 20’x40’. At minimum, can’t I just attach the copper rolled grid that is under the pavers to the top of the pool wall in at least four points?

 

[Little Bill]

The pool is about 20’x40’. At minimum, can’t I just attach the copper rolled grid that is under the pavers to the top of the pool wall in at least four points?

If it has a vinyl liner, the 4 points is not necessary.

 

[Jimmy7]

If it has a vinyl liner, the 4 points is not necessary.

Really, I didn’t know that. I’m assuming you’re saying the pool walls are insulated due to the lining? With that being said, I don’t have to do anything?

 

[Little Bill]

Really, I didn’t know that. I’m assuming you’re saying the pool walls are insulated due to the lining? With that being said, I don’t have to do anything?

Vinyl liners and fiberglass composite
shells shall be considered to be nonconductive materials.

For nonconductive pool shells, bonding at four points
shall not be required.

 

[Jimmy7]

Just for clarity I didn’t even have to bond those steel pool walls to begin with because the pool has a liner, and it really doesn’t matter if they fail or not because they are not necessary, correct?

 

[Little Bill]

Just for clarity I didn’t even have to bond those steel pool walls to begin with because the pool has a liner, and it really doesn’t matter if they fail or not because they are not necessary, correct?

I think you should bond at one place, but 4 points is not necessary.

 

[Jimmy7]

I have a couple of questions about two pool installations, one question on this one, and one on another.

The pool panel on this project is about 15’ from the pool pump. The pump is 240 volts and the homeowner (Single family home) wanted a switch near the pump rather than switching the breaker. I installed a 20A Double Pole Switch in a bell box. The switch states 20 amp 120/277 volts, it doesn’t say 240 volts.. Is this correct? All the equipment is bonded together with the #8 solid including the pump. It appears there is an inspector in the area that requires the bell box to be bonded in installations like this. Is this correct, do I need to hit this bell box with the #8 solid? The equipment is probably 15’ from the pool behind a fence.

Installation number 2. Single family home with a 120 volt 20 amp pool pump circuit. Again a homeowner wanted a switch. Can an ordinary 20 amp 120 volt toggle switch be used to Disconnect the pool pump?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I have a couple of questions about two pool installations, one question on this one, and one on another.

The pool panel on this project is about 15’ from the pool pump. The pump is 240 volts and the homeowner (Single family home) wanted a switch near the pump rather than switching the breaker. I installed a 20A Double Pole Switch in a bell box. The switch states 20 amp 120/277 volts, it doesn’t say 240 volts.. Is this correct? All the equipment is bonded together with the #8 solid including the pump. It appears there is an inspector in the area that requires the bell box to be bonded in installations like this. Is this correct, do I need to hit this bell box with the #8 solid? The equipment is probably 15’ from the pool behind a fence.

Installation number 2. Single family home with a 120 volt 20 amp pool pump circuit. Again a homeowner wanted a switch. Can an ordinary 20 amp 120 volt toggle switch be used to Disconnect the pool pump?

The switch is fine. It is rated up to 277V so it is not an issue.

Yes a sp 20 amp switch would work fine with a 120v pump that is on a 20 amp circuit.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Look at this

(2) Perimeter Surfaces.

The perimeter surface to be bonded shall be considered to extend for 900 mm (3 ft) horizontally beyond the inside walls of the pool while also at a height between 900 mm (3 ft) above and 600 mm (2 ft) below the maximum water level. The perimeter surface shall include unpaved surfaces, concrete, and other types of paving. Perimeter surfaces separated from the pool by a permanent wall or building 1.5 m (5 ft) in height or more shall require equipotential bonding only on the pool side of the permanent wall or building. Bonding to perimeter surfaces shall be provided as specified in 680.26(B)(2)(a), (B)(2)(b), (B)(2)(c), and (B)(2)(d). For conductive pool shells where bonding to perimeter surfaces is required, it shall be attached to the pool reinforcing steel or copper conductor grid at a minimum of four points uniformly spaced around the perimeter of the pool, or if the bonded perimeter surface does not surround the entire pool, it shall be attached to the pool reinforcing steel or copper conductor grid at a minimum of four uniformly spaced points along the bonded perimeter surface. For nonconductive pool shells, bonding at four points shall not be required, and the perimeter bonding shall be attached to the 8 AWG copper equipotential bonding conductor and, if present, to any conductive support structure for the pool.

 

[Jimmy7]

What do you think about the Bell Box bonding, is it necessary?

I went back to the pool yesterday to see if there was any way to switch out the copper drop-in lugs for tin plated as Hubbell suggested. My buddy (Homeowner), stated that they set the pavers closet to the pool (Where the #8 is located) in concrete. He did say that he has to reset at least one paver as it settled in the near future, so I was thinking when he did that I could dig down under that portion of concrete and run a #8 from the bonding grid to the pool wall and attach a tin plated drop-in lug.

 

[Little Bill]

What do you think about the Bell Box bonding, is it necessary?

I went back to the pool yesterday to see if there was any way to switch out the copper drop-in lugs for tin plated as Hubbell suggested. My buddy (Homeowner), stated that they set the pavers closet to the pool (Where the #8 is located) in concrete. He did say that he has to reset at least one paver as it settled in the near future, so I was thinking when he did that I could dig down under that portion of concrete and run a #8 from the bonding grid to the pool wall and attach a tin plated drop-in lug.

If the lugs are rated direct burial (DB) then no need in changing them.
I've never bonded a bell box for a switch, nor have I been asked to.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

If the lugs are rated direct burial (DB) then no need in changing them.
I've never bonded a bell box for a switch, nor have I been asked to.

I agree... a bell box is fine and other than connecting the equipment grounding conductor to the box there is no need to connect the equipotential bonding to it.

 

[Fred B]

Just for clarity I didn’t even have to bond those steel pool walls to begin with because the pool has a liner, and it really doesn’t matter if they fail or not because they are not necessary, correct?

Liner is NOT the Shell (support Structure).

They do make a PVC type shell (or support structure) and self supporting inflatable structures that wouldn't need bonding as no conductive material in the shell. A Metal Shell (support structure) must be bonded, as seen in galvanized steel framing (support structure, SHELL). Also seen AL Shell but it does seem to corrode rather quickly and not sure if it is used much anymore.

Am I correct and saying that you really only have to bond the steel pool walls in four spots, not all the sections?

If these steel components are interconnected by metal structural members (in most case it is) then only the 4 equally spaced bonding need to happen. If there is no continuous metal between structural members then it would seem to be advantageous in keeping the bonding purpose in tact to have more bonding connections to reduce a difference of potential between the components.

 

[Little Bill]

If these steel components are interconnected by metal structural members (in most case it is) then only the 4 equally spaced bonding need to happen. If there is no continuous metal between structural members then it would seem to be advantageous in keeping the bonding purpose in tact to have more bonding connections to reduce a difference of potential between the components.

The 4 points is not necessary with a vinyl liner, see post #8 & #13.

 

[david]

I agree... a bell box is fine and other than connecting the equipment grounding conductor to the box there is no need to connect the equipotential bonding to it.

That's true. But he said other pools in the area, and we don't know if those have double insulated pool pumps or not.

How to bond the eguipment ground to the equal potential bonding is unclear if bonding to the bell box with for example a chair lug would be exceptable.

The op doesn't know why the inspector required this bond on the other pools in the area.

 

[Fred B]

The 4 points is not necessary with a vinyl liner, see post #8 & #13.

What code section allows this. Not seeing it. The liner is not the shell.

680.26(B)(3)
(3) Metallic Components.
All metallic parts of the pool structure, including reinforcing metal not addressed in 680.26(B)⁠(1)⁠(a), shall be bonded. Where reinforcing steel is encapsulated with a nonconductive compound, the reinforcing steel shall not be required to be bonded.

Pool water is still required to be bonded and most metal framing of the above ground pool structure is touchable from within a pool and would create same hazard as any other pool metal addressed in the EQ bonding requirements.

So the only question that remains, Is the pool storable or permanent per the code? Even a storable pool still has to abide to parts 1 & 2 of 680 per 680.30.