Post defined by Oregon Chief as a "Structure"

[zbang]

Coming in late to the party:

225.31 Disconnecting Means. Means shall be provided for disconnecting all ungrounded conductors that supply or pass through the building or structure.
225.32 Location. The disconnecting means shall be installed either inside or outside of the building or structure served or where the conductors pass through the building or structure.

Part of my problem here is that the conductors definitely do not pass through the post (unless you drill a hole in it...), nor, one can argue, do they supply or serve the post. Seems simple...

 

[cowboyjwc]

John, there is a specific exception to the disconnect rule for light standards in part II of 225.

The exception is needed as light poles are structures

Thanks Bob, since no one does it and I don't need it, I don't look at it very often.

My point being is that while yes it is a structure, I do belive that if you put a disconnet at the youth center then you would be good or a 200 amp main in the panel feeding the center.

 

[ronaldrc]

I'm going to get everybody mad again.

But I just can't see doing this installation without getting approval
from poco on the Electrical inspector first.

But I sure can not see why you would need a disc.
before and after the meter.

 

[mivey]

this is all based on his defining a post as a structure.

Technically, it is. Even as dumb as it sounds.

I am considering putting a door knob on the post and telling him the disconnects are located inside the structure.

Now that's funny. And kind of to the point of why he is wrong.

If after, it makes no sense because the structure is being served by service conductors. The disconnects after the meter are serving the out buildings , not the structure.

I don't think the structure is being served at all.

The key was the word "in" in 230.70, not the absence of "structure" which is there.

I agree

The exception is needed as light poles are structures

The exception is needed because the conductors are inside the structure.

I have to agree with George in post 9

Me too. Let's start a club.

Part of my problem here is that the conductors definitely do not pass through the post (unless you drill a hole in it...), nor, one can argue, do they supply or serve the post. Seems simple...

I think that is the crux of the whole thing.

 

[iwire]

Edit x 3: I was reading 230.70 before my first cup of coffee. The key was the word "in" in 230.70, not the absence of "structure" which is there. Hopefully edit 3 gets in before I get the dope slap.

Interesting, so no service disconnect is required for a temp service pole?

 

[mivey]

Interesting, so no service disconnect is required for a temp service pole?

A temp service pole includes a box that is being served so would need a disconnect. The OP's post is just a support structure, as pointed out by infinity in #5.

 

[iwire]

A temp service pole includes a box that is being served so would need a disconnect. The OP's post is just a support structure, as pointed out by infinity.

Please read George's argument I had reponded to, it is based on 'in'


Also 230.70 makes no mention of 'served'.

VI. Service Equipment ? Disconnecting Means
230.70 General. Means shall be provided to disconnect all
conductors in a building or other structure from the service entrance
conductors.

(A) Location. The service disconnecting means shall be
installed in accordance with 230.70(A)(1), (A)(2), and
(A)(3).

(1) Readily Accessible Location. The service disconnecting
means shall be installed at a readily accessible location
either outside of a building or structure or inside nearest the
point of entrance of the service conductors.

(2) Bathrooms. Service disconnecting means shall not be
installed in bathrooms.

(3) Remote Control. Where a remote control device(s) is
used to actuate the service disconnecting means, the service
disconnecting means shall be located in accordance with
230.70(A)(1).

 

[Ponchik]

Interesting, so no service disconnect is required for a temp service pole?

Thats a good point:thumbsup:



I would say if it had less than 7 disconnects then a service disconnect is not required.

 

[mivey]

Please read George's argument I had reponded to, it is based on 'in'

Agreed.

Also 230.70 makes no mention of 'served'.

Agreed.

But I'm sure my gut feeling is based on the correct interpretation of the code. Besides I've already made my mind up and don't feel like changing it.

Honestly, I see no reason for a disconnect at the meter pole if it is just holding the meter. I can see a reason if there is a panel box on the same pole.

 

[texie]

I'm with RUWired and George on this. One well known brand of gas station that we used to do work for used to do this type of setup so to avoid having the meter on the side of the C store where it impeded the side walk. We put the meter out in the yard, usually in a landscaped area, and the service came in to the C store under ground to the service disconnect inside the C store. I've seen some POCO's that don't like this, but I don't think it is a code issue.

 

[iwire]

I've already made my mind up and don't feel like changing it.

Who can argue with that?

Honestly, I see no reason for a disconnect at the meter pole if it is just holding the meter.

Honestly neither can I and I am sure very large number of them do not have a switch.

It's a just a code question to me.


Should I have put a panel at this?

Five total circuits, two 30 amp 208 V and three 20 amp 120 V.

 

[Hv&Lv]

I'm with RUWired and George on this. One well known brand of gas station that we used to do work for used to do this type of setup so to avoid having the meter on the side of the C store where it impeded the side walk. We put the meter out in the yard, usually in a landscaped area, and the service came in to the C store under ground to the service disconnect inside the C store. I've seen some POCO's that don't like this, but I don't think it is a code issue.

So you had wires going to the store that had no means of disconnect other than pulling the meter? I see that as a direct violation of 230.70

 

[mivey]

Should I have put a panel at this?

Not if there are qualifying disconnects elsewhere.

 

[texie]

So you had wires going to the store that had no means of disconnect other than pulling the meter? I see that as a direct violation of 230.70

The service disconnect was inside the building, just like many are done per 230.70(A)(1).

 

[mivey]

So you had wires going to the store that had no means of disconnect other than pulling the meter? I see that as a direct violation of 230.70

I read it as he had the disconnect inside the store at the point where the service conductors entered.

Add: texie beat me to it.

 

[iwire]

Not if there are qualifying disconnects elsewhere.

How many circuits can supply a structure?

If you want to say the post is not being served I can run with that but all the cords supply a single tent.

 

[mivey]

How many circuits can supply a structure?

Depends. Do we have 225.30(A)(6) (is a tent even a "system")?

Or based on the evidently-not-right-here location and/or missing identification of the disconnects do we have 225.30(E)?

but all the cords supply a single tent.

Temporary wiring?

 

[Cow]

I recently installed a 400amp meter on a post from which we went underground with two two inch conduits, one feeding a church, the other to a post feeding a manufactured unit being used as a youth center. I placed a 200 Amp service rated disconnect on each building and am being told by the local inspector whose decision i have appealed and by Dennis Clements chief electrical inspector for the state of oregon that the post I mounted the meter on is a structure and therefore I must provide disconnects at the post as well and feed the buildings with four wire. I will be appealing the chiefs decision as well as soon as he puts it in writing, this is all based on his defining a post as a structure. I am considering putting a door knob on the post and telling him the disconnects are located inside the structure.

Did you do a plan review? 400+ amp services over here in eastern oregon, require one. The inspector would of/should of caught it before it was ever installed if that was the case.

 

[Steviechia2]

How many circuits can supply a structure?


If you want to say the post is not being served I can run with that but all the cords supply a single tent.

I would say one circuit based on 225.30



Agreed. So it seems a disconnect/panel is needed to serve the post. And according to 225.36 it must be service rated.
On that note I would not even think about doing that!

 

[RUWired]

I recently installed a 400amp meter on a post from which we went underground with two two inch conduits, one feeding a church, the other to a post feeding a manufactured unit being used as a youth center. I placed a 200 Amp service rated disconnect on each building and am being told by the local inspector whose decision i have appealed and by Dennis Clements chief electrical inspector for the state of oregon that the post I mounted the meter on is a structure and therefore I must provide disconnects at the post as well and feed the buildings with four wire. I will be appealing the chiefs decision as well as soon as he puts it in writing, this is all based on his defining a post as a structure. I am considering putting a door knob on the post and telling him the disconnects are located inside the structure.

We'll need JCB response on this but it sounds like the inspector is asking for "disconnect's" and 4 conductor cable which sounds like he wants them on the load side of the meter.