PPE for Residential and light commercial HVACR work

[jim dungar]

... under the nec...

It has nothing to do with installation standards.

It has to do with electrical safe work practices. Basically OSHA requires work environment where the employee is made aware of the hazard and has received proper training and procedures to minimize injuries while performing live work.
For most US employees, creating a 'defensible' set of live work practices is a daunting task, so they defer to an industry consensus standard like NFPA70E. The primary work concept in 70E is 'de-energize' it.
However there are some industries where live work is a necessary part of normal activities, like refineries and utilities. Over the years many of these industries, in conjunction with groups like OSHA and insurance companies, performed risk analyses and created specific work practices and qualified employee training.

So, those of you that want to make live residential service connections, develop your own written company standards and practices. Just be ready to defend them in a court of law. 'Sir, could you explain why you willing choose not to follow NFPA70E?'

 

[electrofelon]

It has nothing to do with installation standards.

It has to do with electrical safe work practices. Basically OSHA requires work environment where the employee is made aware of the hazard and has received proper training and procedures to minimize injuries while performing live work.
For most US employees, creating a 'defensible' set of live work practices is a daunting task, so they defer to an industry consensus standard like NFPA70E. The primary work concept in 70E is 'de-energize' it.
However there are some industries where live work is a necessary part of normal activities, like refineries and utilities. Over the years many of these industries, in conjunction with groups like OSHA and insurance companies, performed risk analyses and created specific work practices and qualified employee training.

So, those of you that want to make live residential service connections, develop your own written company standards and practices. Just be ready to defend them in a court of law. 'Sir, could you explain why you willing choose not to follow NFPA70E?'

I understand that. What I am trying to ask is: does osha exempt utilities, or do they exempt certain types of line work (even if performed by a non utility)? I always thought the former, but that seems to go against iwire's comments.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

I understand that. What I am trying to ask is: does osha exempt utilities, or do they exempt certain types of line work (even if performed by a non utility)? I always thought the former, but that seems to go against iwire's comments.

No exemptions...there is a different set of rules for that work.

Just like there is a different set of rules between general industry and construction. For example, the general industry rules require fall arrest proteciton if you are on an unprotected platform more than 4' above the lower level, but for construction the rule is 6', not 4'.

 

[kwired]

It has nothing to do with installation standards.

It has to do with electrical safe work practices. Basically OSHA requires work environment where the employee is made aware of the hazard and has received proper training and procedures to minimize injuries while performing live work.
For most US employees, creating a 'defensible' set of live work practices is a daunting task, so they defer to an industry consensus standard like NFPA70E. The primary work concept in 70E is 'de-energize' it.
However there are some industries where live work is a necessary part of normal activities, like refineries and utilities. Over the years many of these industries, in conjunction with groups like OSHA and insurance companies, performed risk analyses and created specific work practices and qualified employee training.

So, those of you that want to make live residential service connections, develop your own written company standards and practices. Just be ready to defend them in a court of law. 'Sir, could you explain why you willing choose not to follow NFPA70E?'

That there is maybe the most sensible thing I have heard on why a POCO employee can connect a live service drop but a electrician working for an EC can't. Never given it much though before that the POCO's likely are not following 70E, but was aware that 70E is just an electrical safety policy already published for those that choose to use it as their standard - and that it is easier to use it then to make your own safety policy and then have to possibly defend why you think it is acceptable practice.

 

[PSpear]

PPE overkill

PPE overkill

I have read half of this thread and will continue to read more when I have more time.

I have to say the Residential PPE argument makes me chuckle. I was a residential electrician for 15 years and self employed for most of that time, and I have also done my fair share of commercial work too. The fact that anyone would suggest, and I dont think any one here has directly suggested it, that residential electricians should have ARC flash PPE is CRAZY! If they start requiring that you will put most small private residential companies out of business! And dont give me the everyone can afford it for Safety sake argument, that is crap. Arc Flash suits if I remember range from 600-3000 dollars any expense that a private guy with one truck and maybe one employee can justify the cost, tax deductible or not. Plus the gloves and the suits have to be tested or replaced to often, more expense.

In a normal situation in a single family residence with a 200 or 400 amp service I can not see any way of getting an arc flash or blast that would require a PPE suit! Short of jamming a Horse shoe into the two main lugs that come in from the meter base!

That is my 2 cents.

 

[kwired]

I have read half of this thread and will continue to read more when I have more time.

I have to say the Residential PPE argument makes me chuckle. I was a residential electrician for 15 years and self employed for most of that time, and I have also done my fair share of commercial work too. The fact that anyone would suggest, and I dont think any one here has directly suggested it, that residential electricians should have ARC flash PPE is CRAZY! If they start requiring that you will put most small private residential companies out of business! And dont give me the everyone can afford it for Safety sake argument, that is crap. Arc Flash suits if I remember range from 600-3000 dollars any expense that a private guy with one truck and maybe one employee can justify the cost, tax deductible or not. Plus the gloves and the suits have to be tested or replaced to often, more expense.

In a normal situation in a single family residence with a 200 or 400 amp service I can not see any way of getting an arc flash or blast that would require a PPE suit! Short of jamming a Horse shoe into the two main lugs that come in from the meter base!

That is my 2 cents.

The level of protection in dwellings generally won't be as high as it may be in many non dwellings. There is still risk of shock and a lower but still some burn risk. Levels may be low enough all you need is some gloves, FR clothing, and safety glasses - non of which are all that expensive.

If you are self employed and want to take the risk, no one is going to stop you.

If you have employees and one of them gets seriously injured or killed, can you afford the lawsuit that may follow, if you don't have a safety policy and follow it, let alone any fines you may get from OSHA?

I don't have a suit, am self employed, but at same time don't do a lot of things I used to do, and I am definitely more aware of the places that potentially have a high incident energy available then I once was.