mistermudd
Senior Member
- Location
- Washington State
300.3 all single conductors must be installed where part of a recognized wiring method.
pre fabbing EGC pigtails
- Thread starter jeremysterling
- Start date
- Status
At least with EMT, if a fitting screw does comes loose, you at least have a way to 'correct' the problem by pulling an EGC through from one box to the next to 'jumper' the loose connection.
Once you're back-fitted box has been rocked over, you're gonna have to bust up the drywall to tighten it up if it comes loose.
paul
Senior Member
- Location
- Snohomish, WA
Not that I agree with putting the ground screw on the outside, but it has brought up some interesting thoughts. How often does one go through electrical systems to tighten ground pigtails? Does your company pay you to do this 'routine' maintenance? My boss would &$^% purple bricks if I did something like that.
paul
Senior Member
- Location
- Snohomish, WA
OUCH! Think outside that box. A drill/tap can fix the problem quite easily without tearing up drywall.
- Location
- Massachusetts
IMO the code requires the EGC connection to remain accessible and protected from damage.
Beyond that ...........
Beyond that ...........
- Running the EGC outside the box looks hack
- Our guys seem to be able to quickly install the pigtail inside the box.
- If the inspector does have an issue with it your going to burn up a lot of time fixing it.
mjf
Senior Member
Sharp? threads
Sharp? threads
I wouldn't want to take a risk of damaging the sheathing on my grounded or ungrounded conductors when I push them in the box and they possably rub against the threads of the backwards ground screw!!
Granted, the chances are probably minute, but more likely than if the ground screw is installed in our industries standard procedure.
We are talking about electricity here after all, you know .....fires, lives, etc.
Sharp? threads
I wouldn't want to take a risk of damaging the sheathing on my grounded or ungrounded conductors when I push them in the box and they possably rub against the threads of the backwards ground screw!!
Granted, the chances are probably minute, but more likely than if the ground screw is installed in our industries standard procedure.
We are talking about electricity here after all, you know .....fires, lives, etc.
If you don't have the time to do it right the first time, when will you have the time to do it right?
David C. Adkins
Member
- Location
- Lafayette, Colorado
Way back in the late seventy's when I was just a young gofer getting ready to be an Electrical apprentice, one of the elder county inspectors in northwest Ohio, not only approved , but recommended using a jumper from the neutral to the ground post on knob & tube circuits ! The neutrals and hots were all solder together at every connection point most everywhere and very seldom spliced together in a box. But I still knew it was wrong ! We always gave a name to that procedure, ( Everyone called it a Michigan ground, to this day, I have no idea why they picked on Michigan ! ) Of course, at the time if I would try to practice his bad ideas in the nearby city, I would get my hands smacked ! Bad habits like that, only made me want to be an Electrician that much more, so I could do it right ! 
peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
paul
Senior Member
- Location
- Snohomish, WA
So if you run into a situation where the ground screw, which is loose and installed from the outside of the box, you are going to remove the drywall to fix the problem!? You're not going to get many return calls that way. I'll grab my drill and tap, make a new threaded hole and install it correctly and move on to the next job. I'll get the next call out to fix any problems they may have.
No, I wouldn't put the screw in on the outside of the box in the first place.
jeremysterling
Senior Member
- Location
- Austin, TX
Legal pigtail install
Legal pigtail install
Thanks for all the input.
Thanks, buck, for the reference, but let's dig deeper.
Excellent point, thanks for backing me up! :smile:
That sounds like it could put an eye out!!!!
Yes! You have proved me right! 300.3!
The 2008 NEC has reinstated an old bonding method of yore.
300.3(B)(2)... Equipment bonding conductors shall be permitted to be installed on the outside of the raceways in accordance with 250.102(E).
250.102(E) Installation. The equipment bonding jumper shall be permitted to be installed inside or outside of a raceway or enclosure.
Several months ago, I installed some troffers that had make up plates with the ground screw or bonding jumper exposed like my switch box picture. An old hippy coworker recalls running bonding jumpers on the outside of greenfield to motors and XFMR's back in the early 70's. Good ideas always come back into fashion. :grin:
Paul answers that nicely:
Legal pigtail install
Thanks for all the input.
Thanks, buck, for the reference, but let's dig deeper.
Excellent point, thanks for backing me up! :smile:
Have you ever noticed how electricians like to argue a point even when they(myself included) know it is a bad idea and would not do it that way.
That sounds like it could put an eye out!!!!
Yes! You have proved me right! 300.3!
The 2008 NEC has reinstated an old bonding method of yore.
300.3(B)(2)... Equipment bonding conductors shall be permitted to be installed on the outside of the raceways in accordance with 250.102(E).
250.102(E) Installation. The equipment bonding jumper shall be permitted to be installed inside or outside of a raceway or enclosure.
Several months ago, I installed some troffers that had make up plates with the ground screw or bonding jumper exposed like my switch box picture. An old hippy coworker recalls running bonding jumpers on the outside of greenfield to motors and XFMR's back in the early 70's. Good ideas always come back into fashion. :grin:
Paul answers that nicely:
:grin::grin:
I finally opened the picture to see what this thread was all about. It looks stupid and awkward. Why would someone go through this extra effort.?0
As for the connection on the outside turning up loose, how would you know? But if so, you might be able to get a long nosed vise grip in there on the threads on the inside of the box and tighten the ground screw.
But to answer my question: it seems as though the apprentice doesn't have the right tool for the job. The tendency of good mechanics [people who take their career seriously] seems to be that they become tool junkies. Every trip to Home Depot requires a visit to the Klein shrine.
As mentioned, he needs an extension or a longer bit. Think of it as an excuse to buy a new tool.
There are some tools that help you do a better job or do it easier and there are other tools that are necessary to enable you to do the job at all. This is the latter case.
~Peter and Cat, the cat human ["0" after first question mark][unknown meaning]
As for the connection on the outside turning up loose, how would you know? But if so, you might be able to get a long nosed vise grip in there on the threads on the inside of the box and tighten the ground screw.
But to answer my question: it seems as though the apprentice doesn't have the right tool for the job. The tendency of good mechanics [people who take their career seriously] seems to be that they become tool junkies. Every trip to Home Depot requires a visit to the Klein shrine.
As mentioned, he needs an extension or a longer bit. Think of it as an excuse to buy a new tool.
There are some tools that help you do a better job or do it easier and there are other tools that are necessary to enable you to do the job at all. This is the latter case.
~Peter and Cat, the cat human ["0" after first question mark][unknown meaning]
SiddMartin
Senior Member
- Location
- PA
This is a bad thought, you outta have a condrive w/ a hex bit on the end anyway(condrive makes a nice extension), let the kid use that and do it the "right" way. IMO putting in the back would take longer and looks hack. Why even bother arguing? Code is MINIMUM requirements, even if you can, doesn't mean you should.
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peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
I guess nobody else asked this question, but why are you using sectional device boxes in the first place?
This is 2009, not 1959.I guess nobody else asked this question, but why are you using sectional device boxes in the first place?
While we're mentioning unmentioned stuff, the wire looks like it's counter-clockwise around the screw......
- Location
- Massachusetts
Back to the OPs question.
IMO no, what you have in your picture is a violation.
250.34(B)
elohr46
Senior Member
- Location
- square one
I used to buy those with the ground pigtail already in them, but that was many moons ago.
- Status