Pre Wire For Future Car Chargers

[ritelec]

I just looked at a 48A charger to be installed. I always said I would go for copper but just priced it at the supply house. #4-3 NM $12 a foot. smh
Looks like I'm going the SER AL route. I'm planning #4 SER AL ($2.63') then will splice to #6 cu thhn.
Curious, the above posts are recommending #2 SER AL. Why #2 and not #4? Another quick question, is a neutral needed? I wired one a couple years back and brought a neutral which I taped off, looks like this one doesn't need a neutral, but should I bring one anyway? Thank you

 

[ritelec]

I would run 2-2-2-4 AL SER. Gives you lots of options and about $2.25 a foot is considerably cheaper than 6-3 NM.

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

2 AL SER $3.58'

 

[wwhitney]

Curious, the above posts are recommending #2 SER AL. Why #2 and not #4?

Future proofing, overkill, or a concern that the cable might be limited to the 60C ampacity, which I understand is no longer the case with the 2017 and later NECs.

Another quick question, is a neutral needed? I wired one a couple years back and brought a neutral which I taped off, looks like this one doesn't need a neutral, but should I bring one anyway? Thank you

For an EVSE, the neutral is only required when it is cord and plug connected using a NEMA 14 series receptacle. But I assume at 48A it would be hardwired.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[James L]

I just looked at a 48A charger to be installed. I always said I would go for copper but just priced it at the supply house. #4-3 NM $12 a foot. smh
Looks like I'm going the SER AL route. I'm planning #4 SER AL ($2.63') then will splice to #6 cu thhn.
Curious, the above posts are recommending #2 SER AL. Why #2 and not #4? Another quick question, is a neutral needed? I wired one a couple years back and brought a neutral which I taped off, looks like this one doesn't need a neutral, but should I bring one anyway? Thank you

I've never hardwire to unit, only the ones with the receptacle. And it needs a neutral as well as ground

 

[James L]

.But I assume at 48A it would be hardwired.

Cheers, Wayne

All the ones I've done have been 48 amps and they have a 14-50 plug (range receptacle)

 

[wwhitney]

All the ones I've done have been 48 amps and they have a 14-50 plug (range receptacle)

A 48A continuous EVSE would require a 60A breaker, which means that a 14-50 receptacle is too small [210.21(B)(1)], it would need to be 14-60 (if that exists).

The use of NEMA 14 plug and receptacles for EVSEs is common, but wasteful; they don't need the neutral, so if a NEMA 6 plug and receptacle are use instead, you have one less conductor to run.

Cheers< Wayne

 

[gadfly56]

I just looked at a 48A charger to be installed. I always said I would go for copper but just priced it at the supply house. #4-3 NM $12 a foot. smh
Looks like I'm going the SER AL route. I'm planning #4 SER AL ($2.63') then will splice to #6 cu thhn.
Curious, the above posts are recommending #2 SER AL. Why #2 and not #4? Another quick question, is a neutral needed? I wired one a couple years back and brought a neutral which I taped off, looks like this one doesn't need a neutral, but should I bring one anyway? Thank you

If it's a Tesla, aluminum is a no-no. See the GEN-3 installation instructions:

https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/support/charging/Gen3_WallConnector_Installation_Manual.pdf

 

[petersonra]

If it's a Tesla, aluminum is a no-no. See the GEN-3 installation instructions:

https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/support/charging/Gen3_WallConnector_Installation_Manual.pdf

It seems to be saying that for terminal connections but in the case of the charger being discussed the aluminum wire would go to the receptacle, not to the charger itself.

 

[rjniles]

2 AL SER $3.58'

Lowes $2.21
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Southwire-...er-Service-Entrance-Cable-By-the-Foot/4294349

 

[James L]

A 48A continuous EVSE would require a 60A breaker, which means that a 14-50 receptacle is too small [210.21(B)(1)], it would need to be 14-60 (if that exists).

The use of NEMA 14 plug and receptacles for EVSEs is common, but wasteful; they don't need the neutral, so if a NEMA 6 plug and receptacle are use instead, you have one less conductor to run.

Cheers< Wayne

But that's what comes on the unit from the factory. That's why this whole 55-60 amp discussion is retarded anyway.

Whether that circuit is 55 or 60, either is larger than the receptacle demanded by the manufacturer

 

[wwhitney]

But that's what comes on the unit from the factory.

Are you sure that's a 48A EVSE, not a 40A EVSE? Make and model?

Thanks, Wayne

 

[ritelec]

If it's a Tesla, aluminum is a no-no. See the GEN-3 installation instructions:

https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/support/charging/Gen3_WallConnector_Installation_Manual.pdf

I'm planning #4 SER AL ($2.63') then will splice to #6 cu thhn.

Thank you for that link. That is similar to the one I put in a couple years back.
Here's another link
https://teslatap.com/articles/home-charging-wiring-guide/

It has glass on the front, the link I suppied says it's rated for indoor/outdoor. It doesn't look outdoor rated when holding it in my hand. (Just looked for that weather rating again but couldn't find it).
Putting in the garage.

 

[kec]

Just curious and not to look for a reason to cut corners but has anyone amp probed the Tesla Gen 3 on max 60A
I know it may vary but sometimes nameplate amps are above actual draw. Nominal voltage will come into play.

 

[James L]

Are you sure that's a 48A EVSE, not a 40A EVSE? Make and model?

Thanks, Wayne

I don't have make and model.
Been over a year

 

[wwhitney]

I don't have make and model.
Been over a year

Then most likely it was for a 40A continuous EVSE, since it came with a 50A plug.

The next circuit size up is 60A, for a 48A continuous EVSE, such as the present generation Tesla wall connector. Those are usually hardwired, perhaps because 60A plugs are uncommon.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[retirede]

Then most likely it was for a 40A continuous EVSE, since it came with a 50A plug.

The next circuit size up is 60A, for a 48A continuous EVSE, such as the present generation Tesla wall connector. Those are usually hardwired, perhaps because 60A plugs are uncommon.

Cheers, Wayne

625.44 only allows receptacles on EVSE branch circuits rated 50A or less. Anything greater must be hard wired.

 

[drcampbell]

A 1-1/4" conduit with a pull string would cover most scenarios even better.

Hear here. One for each vehicle stall, with large, deep boxes.

It would be nice if the EVSE manufacturers would get together and compile their installation instructions down to a pamphlet on Design Guidelines for Electrical Installations, but I don't see that happening any time soon.

In the meantime, my vote is still for empty conduit unless you're actually installing a charger. Today's discussion illustrates that even the current requirements aren't clear & comprehensible, let alone future needs.

 

[A/A Fuel GTX]

Would this comply with 240.4 (B) (1) ?

Yes.......A 55 amp breaker doesn't exist.

 

[readydave8]

Yes.......A 55 amp breaker doesn't exist.

 

[winnie]

If 210.19(A)(1)(a) gets deleted, then 210.20 will still require a 60A breaker, but 240.4(B) would allow a 55A ampacity conductor to be protected at 60A, so that's fine. Ampacity is a continuous rating per the definition, so the load only needs a 48A ampacity conductor. The breaker is the weak link.

Just to be clear, this is not your interpretation of the code, but rather your suggestion as to how the code be changed.

Code requires that a 48A continuous load be supplied with a 60A conductor and breaker with a 60A rating.

You are saying that it should permit the use of a 55A conductor and breaker with a 60A rating.

I agree.

Jon