Prevailing Wage

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Rewire

Rewire

Senior Member
Location
Lake of the Ozarks
K2X said:
Here, residential military base housing DB can pay 25% to 50% less than a commercial type job on the same base.
Also the absense of a local union means the DB scale is based off the non-union scale which for some trades in my city means about equal pay on either side of the gate. Here, for example, the IBEW is at least present so us non-union guys get to reap the benifits or better yet, Scale, plus take the bennies in cash.:grin: The drywallers, paperhangers, and painters here are not organized at all and them boys can starve to death on a DB job.:mad:
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Fort Cambell is located on the border of Kentucy and Tennessee, partof the base commisary is located on the Kentucy side and part is in Tennessee. When they replaced the roof Ac units the crane set up on the Kentucy side which paid a higher rate he sat as many units as he could before relocating his crane to the Tennessee side which was a lower rate.
 
e57

e57

Senior Member
Location
San Francisco, CA
satcom said:
I am sure PW is not inflated, in may even be a little on the low side, the rate not only carries the employees direct wage, it has all the burden costs, including medical, pension, and all the local, state, and fed taxes, included in the rate.


How about we look at the PW issues, and see what we can gain from them.
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I too don't want get into the union stuff either - but it is almost unavoidable - I'll do my best - but understand not all locals play by the same rules....

Straight time at $75 an hour? Too low.... Yes, that is one of the highest PW wages in the country.... And from a place where the market rate is 50% of that, and still lower than the $53 basic hourly on PW. Yet the wage is determined by census from one organization who steadily claim a shortage of labor, but refuse 10,000 apprenticeships, and only take 100 - if they have a class.... But by law - only one apprenticeship program is allowed in each geographical area. I sorry the fix is in - right there on the wages.... Likewise this same organization refuses entry of trained local workforce, to include persons from within their organization to further claim a labor shortage.... And since you are required by law to contact them to dispatch apprentices on any PW work on a one to five hour JW basis - you can be sure they will be involved in the project in some way.

On top of that - the companies who milk PW work have learned that the higher wages can be used to justify a higher mark-up on labor - why not boost up the cost of materials as well? Any quote for materials on a PW job are jacked through the roof.... It's no secret that 20% of a larger number is more money for profit....

Since the average - school - is essentially a glorified office building. If you called one an "office building" for "Company X", and an identical building of identical specification if it is called a "School" for the "San Francisco (or Oakland) Unified School District". If you put both contracts side by side the bottom line may be $100M apart... Even if the same quotes are from the same companies.... :mad: And this is why some children go to school in trailers manufactured in Waco TX.
 
Fulthrotl

Fulthrotl

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e57 said:
I too don't want get into the union stuff either - but it is almost unavoidable - I'll do my best - but understand not all locals play by the same rules....
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it's a touchy subject, as it goes to the heart of organized labor.

i remember a pw job, so calif. university. 5 years ago.

huge union contractor, and huge non union contractor both on the same job.
that'll always make everyone happy.

non union contractor's employees were getting more on the check than
the union guys with collective bargaining.

about $4 an hour on the check more, before taxes.
pissed? oh, dear. it was freaking ugly. the union sparkys
were mad enough to stomp bunny rabbits.

me? i was working for a utility, making $5 more an hour on the check
than the PW.

you are working on a prevailing wage job, and are classified as an
electrician, you get the prevailing wage, unless you are covered
by a collective bargaining agreement, like the situation above.

then you get to pay dues to make less. :p

lately, i've been working odd hours, and it's been spotty work,
but every time i think i want to just go do no brainer work for
someone else, i remember the commute to santa monica, and
the mind numbing work experience of the last go round of
employment.

and then i quit whining, shut up, and go back to work.
but working alone gets old sometimes. it'd be nice to have
someone to play with a bit more often.
 
e57

e57

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Location
San Francisco, CA
growler

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
e57 said:
On top of that - the companies who milk PW work have learned that the higher wages can be used to justify a higher mark-up on labor - why not boost up the cost of materials as well? Any quote for materials on a PW job are jacked through the roof.... It's no secret that 20% of a larger number is more money for profit....
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Prevailing wage jobs are put out for bid so they are actually very competative. The difference in a prevailing wage job is that you know what the labor cost is going to be and a competetor can't come in with cheap labor cost and beat you out of a job.

The real problem with prevailing wage jobs is that some of the companies that bid these jobs don't understand or don't plan on playing by the rules. They think they can bid these jobs and load them up with cheap labor and get away with it like they do on other jobs.

I have worked for a couple of companies that normally did government contract type work and they very good at making sure they followed all the rules right to the letter.

There are only a few areas of the country where prevailing wage is some real exaggerated amount compared to local wage rates. What this does is keep contractors from comming in from lower wage areas with cheaper labor cost and taking all the local work on government funded projects.
 
V

VoltageHz

Member
Location
NJ
fbhwt said:
Thank you for your reply, I was told by a friend who still works for the company, that the owner posted a paper that says you must be licensed to receive prevailing wage.
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Tell your friend to ask his boss what happens in states like New Jersey where there are no licenses for working electrician.
 
rgiraldo

rgiraldo

Member
Location
FL
If your on a base talk to the Army core of Engineer. Ask them about the wage and let him know what your making. They will fix your boss
 
e57

e57

Senior Member
Location
San Francisco, CA
Rewire said:
actually it is true everywere
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So tell me if it goes like this where you are? The DIR puts out an "unbiased wage survey" - who knows who they ask.... But some how, they always find Super JW and his other Super-friends who make ~150 - 170% ($55-65) of the average top wage available in a city 7x7 miles... (even when there is very little work.. ) And how do they find this Super JW EVERYTIME?! As nearest I can tell - The only people making that wage are the people on prevailing wage.... And when the PW project is over - they all go back to reality based wages... But some company out there is willing to keep paying Super JW to sit on his duff because there is no way to have a profitable or competive contract by paying this schmuck that much. Most companies could not even aford to keep him on part-time... Maybe they pour money down the drain paying Super JW - waiting for the next PW job that would be competive and very profitable... But somehow the DIR always finds him (and whatever company he is 'working' for when they put out an "unbiased wage survey". :roll:

Sorry - I still say raping the public coffers - our tax dollars is a CRIME!
 
C

charlie k.

Senior Member
Location
Baltimore, Md.
The prevailing wage is determined by a poll of the unions and Open shop contractors. It is not based on the Union wage alone. This information is on the Department of Labor website.
Look under DBA compliance principles.


Charli
 
George Stolz

George Stolz

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e57 said:
The DIR puts out an "unbiased wage survey" - who knows who they ask....
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I didn't know what a "DIR" was, so I googled it, and in so doing found a legal website with an article relevant to this thread, that might shed some insight into how the world works, at least in e57's CA.

http://library.findlaw.com/2003/Aug/11/132981.html

I found it to be an interesting read.
 
growler

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
e57 said:
Sorry - I still say raping the public coffers - our tax dollars is a CRIME!
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Yes that's one way to look at it. What happens if you don't have a high prevailing wage in an area? A public works project is put out for bid and contractors from all over get in on the action. Who has the advantage? Those in states with the lowest labor cost ( not California ) and they get the job by under bidding the local contractors. They bring in their crews from back home and spend a little money at the local motels and restaurants but they don't buy homes and pay property taxes and many times don't even pay vehicle taxes.

Yes the job can be done cheaper but where does the money end up? By having a high prevailing wage the local boys have the advantage and the money stays at home. It really doesn't matter who makes the money it will end up being spread around the community ( at least the drug dealers will make some money). Just joking but the idea of a high prevailing wage is to keep as much money as possible in the local area. Someone has to pay all those taxes.
 
S

satcom

Senior Member
growler said:
Yes that's one way to look at it. What happens if you don't have a high prevailing wage in an area? A public works project is put out for bid and contractors from all over get in on the action. Who has the advantage? Those in states with the lowest labor cost ( not California ) and they get the job by under bidding the local contractors. They bring in their crews from back home and spend a little money at the local motels and restaurants but they don't buy homes and pay property taxes and many times don't even pay vehicle taxes.

Yes the job can be done cheaper but where does the money end up? By having a high prevailing wage the local boys have the advantage and the money stays at home. It really doesn't matter who makes the money it will end up being spread around the community ( at least the drug dealers will make some money). Just joking but the idea of a high prevailing wage is to keep as much money as possible in the local area. Someone has to pay all those taxes.
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Many years ago, I felt the same as 57 We were being raped by the PW jobs, I was so heated about the issue, I went to a school board hearing on a budget to build a new school, and I listened to everyone voice their views on the plan, almost everyone there felt the same as 57 and the meeting turned into a shouting match, and one of the board members stopped the meeting, and said they would have another meeting where all the issues of project costs would be discussed in detail, and he invited everyone to attend and have their questions ready to present, so I made my list, and went to the next meeting, what I learned was, a PW school project was actually a bargin for the tax payers, they get a well designed, well built, with quality materials, school that will serve the community for many years, most of the increased cost is not in the direct labor, it is in meeting the higher quality standards with approved materials and progerss inspections.

Think about the workers real net income on these jobs, when a large number of them work less days per year then non PW workers.
 
W

wawireguy

Senior Member
e57 said:
Sorry - I still say raping the public coffers - our tax dollars is a CRIME!
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My question would be how do you feel about spending billions upon billions of dollars for weapon systems? I very rarely hear the same people that decry spending our tax dollars to build public works projects or fund public projects that think we need to cut back on defense spending.

I see nothing wrong with paying people a living wage to build our public works projects.
 
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