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growler said:
So do I and I'm more than happy to give any customer the names and numbers of four reputable companies that they can call. I don't even need to use Mr. Sparky or Mr. Electric to get the price up there. All I need to do is give them the numbers for successful contractors that have been in business for 20 years are more.

If you leave the side-jobbers and handymen out of the bidding then you can get a fair price for a job. You may not sell the job for $5500 but you can often sell it for $3000-plus and that's much better than $1700.

The problem with being a side-jobber or handyman is that they only have one thing to offer and that's price. As a reputable company you can offer quality assurance and a good warranty. How can a guy that wants cash under the table offer a good warranty? What, take his word, you already know he's a crook for working off the books( just ask the IRS)? What quality assurance can you get from someone that's afraid to leave a paper trail?

Many people are willing to pay extra for the piece of mind in knowing that they are dealing with a reputable company that is licensed, insured and bonded. They also like to know that you have been in business for years and will be for years to come.



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Tell that to the customers of Wagner Electric. What good is that "reputable company's" warranty now? Huh? Got an answer to that? I didn't think so. Suffice it to say, every one of their customers who paid 5500 for a 200 amp upgrade instead of 3500 or 4000. to a sidejobber might as well kiss that $2000 worth of "peace of mind" goodbye.

20 hours for a service change Rewire? 20 hours...

It doesn't take that long to rough an entire house.
 
ITO said:
Proactive: Do a better job of chasing work in my one back yard.

Reactive: I am drafting up language for my contracts that states work done by others to systems under my warranty, will void my warranty.
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ITO based on your prior posts I'm suprised it's not already in there. Even if it isn't, I don't think the HO's have a legal leg to stand on.
 
Based on your prior posts I am surprised to see you love piece work so much.

The HOs don't have a leg to stand on and that is why I never felt the need to actually put that clause in a contract.

Keep in mind these condos started at $400k, that went all the way up to $1m+... some of them made their money by stealing from honest hard working people, otherwise known as practicing law. Being right is not enough, you have to be right and get the other guy to agree you are right or it will cost you some money. What is cheaper, fighting over a $200 service call in court, or just bitting the bullet?
 
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It's really getting cut throat ugly around my area. I've been doing 2300 sq ft spec homes for a builder for the last couple of years. Typical home, 200A service, 20 recessed cans, phone, cable, smokes, etc. My price has been stable at $11700.00 for the last year and a half. Well today, I run into the builder and he whips out a bid he got from another guy for the next spec he is starting which by the way is 3000 sq ft. I about fell over when I saw the bid this guy submitted. He bid it at $5000.00 excluding cans but his price on cans were $10.00 each complete with trim and lamp! I use Halo H71CAT's and the can alone is 9.00. People are getting desperate out there boys..........
 
This is what some are selling as a service upgrade.

No main breaker.
No pesky connectors or bushings of any kind for the wiring.
No new meter can or riser outside.

Just cut the poco seal pull the meter, run a little wire without a nipple or anything between the meter and panel, throw in the panel and you're good to go. No need to pull a permit or get the power company involved.

Homeowner doesn't know the difference. They got a shiny new panel installed with shiny new breakers. That other contractor we got a price from must have been trying to rip us off!

0229081239.jpg


0229081239a.jpg
 
aline said:
This is what some are selling as a service upgrade.

No main breaker.
No pesky connectors or bushings of any kind for the wiring.
No new meter can or riser outside.

Just cut the poco seal pull the meter, run a little wire without a nipple or anything between the meter and panel, throw in the panel and you're good to go. No need to pull a permit or get the power company involved.

Homeowner doesn't know the difference. They got a shiny new panel installed with shiny new breakers. That other contractor we got a price from must have been trying to rip us off!

th_0229081239.jpg
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WOW thats got station wagon EC written all over it.
 
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tonyou812 said:
aline said:
This is what some are selling as a service upgrade.

No main breaker.
No pesky connectors or bushings of any kind for the wiring.
No new meter can or riser outside.

Just cut the poco seal pull the meter, run a little wire without a nipple or anything between the meter and panel, throw in the panel and you're good to go. No need to pull a permit or get the power company involved.

Homeowner doesn't know the difference. They got a shiny new panel installed with shiny new breakers. That other contractor we got a price from must have been trying to rip us off!

0229081239.jpg

WOW thats got station wagon EC written all over it.
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So you found a 4 hour service upgrade!
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LawnGuyLandSparky said:
I think that on a straightforward 100a to 200a service upgrade, most customers are not willing to entertain a 5500.00 bid for bolt in breakers and stainless steel meter pans when there's a 2400.00 option.
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I don't know where $2400 came from....the offer was $1700. #68


LawnGuyLandSparky said:
No, they're not selling the same thing.
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....and neither am I.
 
and that is why you never made any money until you found a partner that had a lick of business sense
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Not really.

I never made any real money until I signed up for a HUGE mortgage in 1986. That motivated me to go to work every day and night that I could. I actually made really good money in the old tax free, low overhead days but wasn't building any equity in my "business". If I brought in $1000, 800 went straight into my pocket...for a short time.
 
LawnGuyLandSparky said:
...20 hours for a service change Rewire? 20 hours...

It doesn't take that long to rough an entire house.
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Again you have proven that you know so much more than everyone else. Are you trying to say that whoever posted the 20 hours for a service has been wrong for as long as they have been doing that type of work? I think there is already a concensus that perhaps you exagerate you speed a little bit, I mean with a 4 hour service and a 20 hour rough in and all, but how can you possibly know how long anyone else's service upgrade should take? Are you familiar with what a 20 hour upgrade entails? I don't know exactly, because our upgrades use SE cable and a main breaker panel. Some places use a combination meter disconnect or meter/panel, or IMC risers are run instead of cable. You can't just compare price without know the specifics the installation.
 
Here's a typical service upgrade for around here.
50ft of 4/0 SER cable & #4 gnd fished 50ft through a finished basement to get to the panel and water line. Lots of fun fighting that through the floor joists by myself.
The existing meter was located on the back of the house. Usually the POCO wants it relocated within 10ft. of the front corner of the house. This city just happened to have their own POCO and they were ok with leaving the meter where it was. Usually I have to relocate them. For overhead I would need to install a 2in. GRC mast through the roof.

Outside Meter/Main Breaker Before
ServiceUpgradeBefore1.jpg


After
ServiceUpgradeAfter1.jpg



Inside Panel Before
PanelBefore2.jpg


After
PanelAfter3.jpg


Couldn't quite knock this out in 4 hours due to the weather that day. :)
winter1.jpg
 
dude...you are such a slacker...i could do it in 3 hrs...with cleanup...ya lazy bum


plus, you put the hammer back wrong...slow and incompetent...you hack



:D
 
I'm thinking of using this baby for all my service upgrades from now on.
I could load enough material on this baby to do a whole city block at once.
I could stop by the rescue mission on the way and load it up with some day workers.
Mass production that's the key to being able to lower my price and become more competative. :)

ServiceTruck4-1.jpg
 
emahler said:
dude...you are such a slacker...i could do it in 3 hrs...with cleanup...ya lazy bum


plus, you put the hammer back wrong...slow and incompetent...you hack



:D
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I wondered if anyone would notice the hammer.
You win a prize.
 
I'd take the time to explain my service upgrades but it's easier to send you to my website. The 100A "before" picture was a panel change-out without changing the service cable or grounding. My services have exterior IMC and always 2 new ground rods. I never trust previous grounding. This 100A service was about 30' from the meter, so is a disconnect type. I moved the panel to a wall with better access. The old panel was buried in a corner that was their prime storage area, so I had to run conduit to J Boxes for the branch circuits. This one took a little longer than 4 hours. So did the double on the same Picture Page.

Dave

www.TigerElectrical.com
 
Demo old service install new back board install mast meter base rmc mast all new grounding and bonding install new 125 amp panel and lateral can take me up to 20 hours easy. cost 3200-3800

usually can end up at close to 4800 if replacing old receptacles ,,,, gfcis for bathroom and outside we also are required to have a light and dedicated receptacle by panel if in unfinished basement

not to mention the paperwork and associated declarations to AHJ and POCO ........ BTW if its a mast we have to use through bolts into blocking and one at the rafter level no lags are accepted have to open wall inside of house to put in 2x6 blocking for mast clamps and through bolts

what else is there oh yeah meters have to be between 5-6 ft off grade no breaker handle higher than 60 inches and that mast has to line up with a rafter to bolt it too.
 
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