push in connectors reliable ?

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DWEames said:
The problem is gradual overheating over time and poorly designed installations with load disparities etc. the metal will weaken and they will burn up in certain instances. Nothing is superior to properly made taps.
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? Evidence?

Taps?

The “best” thing I’ve seen is Erico Cadwelded lugs bolted together or just outright Cadwelded joints. In a motor shop some guys can TIG copper which is superior to Cadwelded but sort of beyond most electrician skill sets and even most welders. Learning copper welding is tricky because of the tendency to fire scale badly.
 
Ok I’ll just say it. The problem with push ins is that it is not possible or at least no way I’ve found to jam 3-4 wires into one where it seems to be the rule and not the exception to twist as many wires as needed into a tight bundle then jam a big red wire nut over the ends like a “hat” then gum up the whole thing with a lot of tape so that the wires don’t fall out and can easily arc and melt inside the whole wad until they are fused together! Should be called nut welded. Also if you only have red wire nuts and just one or two wires or worse a big blue, no problem. Just keep twisting the wire with your lineman’s until it’s fat enough to get the wire nut to stay on it!

With push ins it’s one wire per slot. You can’t cheat. And it doesn’t look like a giant colored rats nest when you get done.

I drop in screw terminal blocks on a lot of panels just to clean up the wire nut messes I find just to avoid call backs. Wagos still leave the wiring dangling like a rats nest.

I do use wire nuts a lot. Even with a panel properly locked out, control wiring is usually stall partly live. PLC wiring for instance often has power on it to “aux contacts”. So when I’m repairing or upgrading panels I just disconnect control wiring with an insulated screwdriver and wire nut each one individually. Then I reverse it when I’m done. I might use the same wire nut dozens of times.
 
paulengr said:
I drop in screw terminal blocks on a lot of panels just to clean up the wire nut messes I find just to avoid call backs. Wagos still leave the wiring dangling like a rats nest.
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You know I just recently found in the Eaton catalog that they offer a terminal block for their panels & loadcenters to clean them up when doing retrofits.


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paulengr said:
Ok I’ll just say it. The problem with push ins is that it is not possible or at least no way I’ve found to jam 3-4 wires into one where it seems to be the rule and not the exception to ..........
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They make the push-ins to hold up to 8 wires, never used them, but have used a lot of the 4 wire ones, never had issue with dropping out one conductor like I've had happen with a red cap as you try to twist, one will try to pull back, even with pre-twisting one will try to pull back as you try to pretwist. These push-ins make for a neater box make up, and the clear top ones allows you to see that the conductors are fully seated. And are easier when the guy before you cut the wire short.
My only wish is that they make one specifically for pigtails, 2,3 or 4 in one direction and 1 out in the other.
 
kwired said:
maybe but I don't think we had it on this particular forum, unless maybe you switched from soldering to wire nuts in the past 15 years ;)
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I don't think he meant on this forum, just in general. I have the same issue when people say MC is not for real electricians, since that was said about EMT when it was first available. (according to my mentor that goes way back)
 
I have occasionally made up #12 or 10 with split bolts in a few situations where big splices were forced on me. Easier to put 10 wires into a bolt and tape it than to split into groups with jumpers & 3 or 4 wirenuts.
 
James L said:
I, for one, hate spending a minute and 13 seconds on something that should only take 8 seconds
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i for one appreciate the time and effort of my craft that i've been involved with since the Carter administration , and do not credit manufacturers for making anything about it better

~S~
 
jmellc said:
I have occasionally made up #12 or 10 with split bolts in a few situations where big splices were forced on me. Easier to put 10 wires into a bolt and tape it than to split into groups with jumpers & 3 or 4 wirenuts.
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Not listed for it, but yes it does work fairly well in most cases.

High pressure crimping devices work pretty well with non listed combinations as well, but don't ever come apart again.
 
Frank DuVal said:
Back when I was in a motor shop (dark ages), we silver soldered the copper windings to the copper leads with an Oxy-Acetylene set. Very small torch tip for small motors, bigger tips for form coil hundreds of horsepower types.
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There is one motor company still making them this way. TONS of comm failures. I’d name names but I can’t remember which one.
 
jmellc said:
I have occasionally made up #12 or 10 with split bolts in a few situations where big splices were forced on me. Easier to put 10 wires into a bolt and tape it than to split into groups with jumpers & 3 or 4 wirenuts.
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Easier to put them ON a bolt with ring lugs you mean?
 
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