questions about this small "utility" water heater

[peter d]

Under a sink or in a closet; pots, pans, utensils, mops, tools, and who knows what else can damage it. There have been cases where landlords have filed insurance claims involving property damage only to be turned down under "hard-living" exceptions. Which basically means the legal system recognizes that people can be very uncaring toward a property and come real world there is plenty of evidence of that.


http://www.lawyers.com/ask-a-lawyer...wont-pay-they-say-its-hard-living-519423.html

:roll::roll:

 

[RustyShackleford]

I am pretty sure this is the type of connector required.

It installs from one side and there is no locknut to have to deal with.

Thanks for the pointer. What is it called ? Not sure I see how to install it, but probably figure it out once I'm holding it. I agree that it seems a little odd, given the concentric knockouts.

I'm definitely using NM. With exposed Romex running all over the crawlspace (maybe I didn't mention this is in the crawlspace ?), not sure how the run going to the water heater needs to be any different.

 

[mbrooke]

:roll::roll:

Properties where the people just don't care expose NM to vastly different conditions.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I am pretty sure this is the type of connector required.

It installs from one side and there is no locknut to have to deal with.

Looks like it's found about halfway down this page: http://www.mwelectricmfg.com/Catalog.html

 

[K8MHZ]

Thanks for the pointer. What is it called ? Not sure I see how to install it, but probably figure it out once I'm holding it. I agree that it seems a little odd, given the concentric knockouts.

I'm definitely using NM. With exposed Romex running all over the crawlspace (maybe I didn't mention this is in the crawlspace ?), not sure how the run going to the water heater needs to be any different.

They are called 'two piece butterfly clamps' by Halex.

Big box stores all have them around here.

 

[kwired]

Under a sink or in a closet; pots, pans, utensils, mops, tools, and who knows what else can damage it. There have been cases where landlords have filed insurance claims involving property damage only to be turned down under "hard-living" exceptions. Which basically means the legal system recognizes that people can be very uncaring toward a property and come real world there is plenty of evidence of that.


Not to detract, but just to back up my claim:




http://www.city-data.com/forum/renting/150817-trying-recover-tenants-damage.html

http://www.lawyers.com/ask-a-lawyer...wont-pay-they-say-its-hard-living-519423.html

I don't doubt there are some people that may be pretty harsh on things. Still may want RMC instead of FMC for conductor protection from some of the worst of them though, aluminum flex especially doesn't really take all that much abuse before you have potential conductor exposure, though it maybe is a little higher level of protection then NM cable.

 

[kwired]

Looks like it's found about halfway down this page: http://www.mwelectricmfg.com/Catalog.html

Same thing is often in the package with a range or dryer supply cord. Some of them are a PITA to install, others not so bad, appliance design sometimes has an impact on how well they will work on that appliance.

 

[JFletcher]

Thanks for the pointer. What is it called ? Not sure I see how to install it, but probably figure it out once I'm holding it. I agree that it seems a little odd, given the concentric knockouts.

I'm definitely using NM. With exposed Romex running all over the crawlspace (maybe I didn't mention this is in the crawlspace ?), not sure how the run going to the water heater needs to be any different.

Take the screws completely out, rotate the two pieces 90* toward you, one up, one down, insert the cable, put the metal tab pieces inside the KO, rotate back, hold together while reinserting screws, tighten down. You'll see it once you get it in your hands.

 

[GeorgeB]

another possibility

another possibility

The unpainted galvanized conduit size "piece" is held in by those 2 screws; remove the access cover, remove the screws and reinstall the galvanized piece in "working" vs "shipping" position with the screws after tightening your locknut. Larger screws and holes might be needed.

 

[mbrooke]

I don't doubt there are some people that may be pretty harsh on things. Still may want RMC instead of FMC for conductor protection from some of the worst of them though, aluminum flex especially doesn't really take all that much abuse before you have potential conductor exposure, though it maybe is a little higher level of protection then NM cable.

But none the less, FMC would still take abrasion better then NM.

 

[RustyShackleford]

But none the less, FMC would still take abrasion better then NM.

I'm sorry, but I'm still having trouble understanding why it might not be ok to have NM going to a water-heater in a crawlspace, when there is NM literally all over the same crawlspace. Are you talking only about a water-heater in a location that has more traffic (than a crawlspace) ?

 

[RustyShackleford]

The unpainted galvanized conduit size "piece" is held in by those 2 screws; remove the access cover, remove the screws and reinstall the galvanized piece in "working" vs "shipping" position with the screws after tightening your locknut. Larger screws and holes might be needed.

I'm not following you. Are you talking about a regular Romex clamp (with locknut) or the "clam shell" type clamp that was suggested recently ?

 

[K8MHZ]

I'm sorry, but I'm still having trouble understanding why it might not be ok to have NM going to a water-heater in a crawlspace, when there is NM literally all over the same crawlspace. Are you talking only about a water-heater in a location that has more traffic (than a crawlspace) ?

The difference, to me, is that the run from the heater to the junction box will not be following the structure surface, it will be hanging in 'free air' so to speak.

MC may be marginally stronger for an unsupported vertical run.

It's a personal / design thing and thankfully the NEC is silent on the issue.

If the house was in Chicago, EMT may have to be run to it.

 

[K8MHZ]

I'm not following you. Are you talking about a regular Romex clamp (with locknut) or the "clam shell" type clamp that was suggested recently ?

I didn't understand that, either.

 

[RustyShackleford]

The difference, to me, is that the run from the heater to the junction box will not be following the structure surface, it will be hanging in 'free air' so to speak.

It's not even that bad. Pretty silly, maybe, but I'm actually hanging the water heater from the floor joists (not setting it on the crawlspace floor). The reason is, the floor is pretty sloped near the foundation wall where I want the thing located, and the crawlspace is "encapsulated", so it'd be pretty hard to level it out without messing with the plastic vapor barrier. It took less than an hour and some scrap material to build the hanging shelf (the thing will only weigh a little over 100lb when full of water). So the Romex can come down one of the vertical 2x4s (the come from the floor joists down to the horizontal 2x6s that support a piece of plywood). So it just has to sneak over maybe 4-6" from the 2x4 to that mystery opening in the side of the WH. Anyhow, I'm certainly not going to worry about it - just curious.

 

[mbrooke]

I'm sorry, but I'm still having trouble understanding why it might not be ok to have NM going to a water-heater in a crawlspace, when there is NM literally all over the same crawlspace. Are you talking only about a water-heater in a location that has more traffic (than a crawlspace) ?

Oh, never mind then :ashamed1: I thought (misunderstood) this was going underneath a sink or in a broom closet.

 

[Barbqranch]

I'm definitely using NM. With exposed Romex running all over the crawlspace (maybe I didn't mention this is in the crawlspace ?), not sure how the run going to the water heater needs to be any different.

How will the home owner ever know when it starts leaking, if it is in the crawlspace?

 

[RustyShackleford]

How will the home owner ever know when it starts leaking, if it is in the crawlspace?

You're suggesting it's inappropriate to put a water-heater in a crawlspace ? Personally, I check in with my crawlpsace once a month or so, just to see if anything is amiss. Also, water-heater is in drainpan, with PVC running through a sealed hole in the encapsulation plastic.

 

[Barbqranch]

I am suggesting that unless extra effort (such as checking every month or a drip pan w/ a drain going out where it can be seen) is required. If you check it every month, will the next owner know to do so?

 

[GoldDigger]

I am suggesting that unless extra effort (such as checking every month or a drip pan w/ a drain going out where it can be seen) is required. If you check it every month, will the next owner know to do so?

In this case I suspect that water coming from the drip pan drain would be noticed outside unless it was raining at the time.

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