Quick Lube Oil change pit

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mltech

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Ft. Lauderdale
Does anyone know what the classification for an oil change pit is?
The existing installation has standard wrap around fluorescents in the pit area of a quick lube store.
There are no electrical outlets in the Pit and I need to update the fixtures. I suppose they were accepted this way when inspected and I just want to be sure.
Thanks in advance.
 
jumper said:
Here is an article that discusses these installs. It may or may not answer your question, IDK.

http://ecmweb.com/code-basics/wiring-commercial-garages-and-repair-and-storage-facilities
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I see that article is dated in 2003. I don't recall which cycle art 511 was changed but think it was either 2005 or 2008 where they added definitions for major repair garage and minor repair garage and there are differences in classifications between the two. If all that is being done is oil changes and other minor repairs some of the hazardous locations are either eliminated or classified at a lower hazard level as it is likely meets the minor repair garage definition. Read through art 511 carefully and determine what does and does not apply to your application.
 
kwired said:
If all that is being done is oil changes and other minor repairs some of the hazardous locations are either eliminated or classified at a lower hazard level as it is likely meets the minor repair garage definition.
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Thanks kwired................

I once did some pvc stub ups to several wall areas (before a pour) in a commercial garage where a plumber was going to park his trucks...


The inspector wanted them changed to rigid.....

I mentioned the owner was just parking his trucks there.....

He said "No one gets married planning on getting divorced".......... :huh:

I installed the rigid..... :D
 
ritelec said:
Thanks kwired................

I once did some pvc stub ups to several wall areas (before a pour) in a commercial garage where a plumber was going to park his trucks...


The inspector wanted them changed to rigid.....

I mentioned the owner was just parking his trucks there.....

He said "No one gets married planning on getting divorced".......... :huh:

I installed the rigid..... :D
Click to expand...

I am not entirely sure what you are saying but it appears like you are saying the inspector made you change the conduit based on what some future use of the building might be. I do not see any authority for this in the code at all.
 
petersonra said:
I am not entirely sure what you are saying but it appears like you are saying the inspector made you change the conduit based on what some future use of the building might be. I do not see any authority for this in the code at all.
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Yes that is what I was saying..........



What about that the inspector being god article? (AHJ)

Too bad this forum wasn't around at the time................. kinda thinking about it, computers weren't around at the time............

Any one have a time machine I could borrow.............
 
ritelec said:
Thanks kwired................

I once did some pvc stub ups to several wall areas (before a pour) in a commercial garage where a plumber was going to park his trucks...


The inspector wanted them changed to rigid.....

I mentioned the owner was just parking his trucks there.....

He said "No one gets married planning on getting divorced".......... :huh:

I installed the rigid..... :D
Click to expand...
And when they get divorced they go through a legal process and may give up some things depending on how the litigation works out. What if the plumbers shop someday turns into office space, retail space, apartments....

What if they don't even use the raceways in question when that time comes?

Would seem to me the problem lies on whoever makes those changes.

ritelec said:
Yes that is what I was saying..........



What about that the inspector being god article? (AHJ)

Too bad this forum wasn't around at the time................. kinda thinking about it, computers weren't around at the time............

Any one have a time machine I could borrow.............
Click to expand...
Computers have been around since the 1950's. The abilities of today's cell phones (even a non-smart phone) would have taken a very large room to house all the necessary components to come up with a computer with the same abilities though. Now it wasn't until about 1980 when you started seeing PC's and wasn't until early 90's when you finally started seeing them on a pretty regular basis outside of businesses.
 
kwired said:
Computers have been around since the 1950's. The abilities of today's cell phones (even a non-smart phone) would have taken a very large room to house all the necessary components to come up with a computer with the same abilities though. Now it wasn't until about 1980 when you started seeing PC's and wasn't until early 90's when you finally started seeing them on a pretty regular basis outside of businesses.
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Thanks for the feedback...............

Yes, it was around 89'-92'ish.......................

Brother(Partner at the time) picked up a Gateway ($$$)...................Played for weeks on it just trying to print an invoice (programing) ....... :happyno:

I attempted a few years before with a unit that looked liked the picture that's attached............. was insane.............not a quitter but I quit .........
 
kwired said:
Computers have been around since the 1950's.
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I was going to send a picture of a old computer (massive).........then thought maybe find one from an old episode from the tv show "lost in space" ..........

Googled "lost in space pictures" and got this..................LOL !!!!
 
Good question, I'll look into it...

Good question, I'll look into it...

Good question. Let me look into that. We just installed some fixtures at a city bus service pit and it looked pretty similar to what you're describing.
 
mltech said:
Does anyone know what the classification for an oil change pit is?
The existing installation has standard wrap around fluorescents in the pit area of a quick lube store.
There are no electrical outlets in the Pit and I need to update the fixtures. I suppose they were accepted this way when inspected and I just want to be sure.
Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

mltech> We did a hazardous LED light install at city bus service pit, rated Class 1 Division 2. Not only for the oil present, but potential for diesel and natural gas fumes. Photo of it attached:
Nemalux_CTransit-pit_combo-horizontal-med.jpg
 
NemaTalk said:
mltech> We did a hazardous LED light install at city bus service pit, rated Class 1 Division 2. Not only for the oil present, but potential for diesel and natural gas fumes. Photo of it attached:
View attachment 9616
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Diesel fumes simply cannot make an area a fire hazard unless the diesel oil and ambient air are heated to at temperature that humans could not withstand.
Gasoline fumes and natural gas fumes could be a fire or explosion hazard, but where would they come from? Is there a natural gas heater in the pit?
Unlike propane, natural gas (mostly methane) is lighter than air and rises. It will not collect in a pit from sources elsewhere in the building.
I wonder who the engineer was who came up with those reasons for his classification?
 
GoldDigger said:
Diesel fumes simply cannot make an area a fire hazard unless the diesel oil and ambient air are heated to at temperature that humans could not withstand.
Gasoline fumes and natural gas fumes could be a fire or explosion hazard, but where would they come from? Is there a natural gas heater in the pit?
Unlike propane, natural gas (mostly methane) is lighter than air and rises. It will not collect in a pit from sources elsewhere in the building.
I wonder who the engineer was who came up with those reasons for his classification?
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I would generally endorse this answer with respect to common electrical area classification principles; however, in this case, with respect to NEC, Article 511, my endorsement is irrelevant.

I've said before that, for installations within their scopes, Articles 511 through 516 are usually an acceptable basis for electrical hazardous location classifications. In the case of the OP the "temperature class" of the material doesn't matter. What does matter is whether the garage is "major" or "minor", the ventilation is adequate or not, and whether the material in question is lighter or heavier than air. Electrical area classification is then determined by Section 511.3.

Articles 511 through 516 are generally extracted from other NFPA documents and reflect the views of other Technical Committees (TC) rather than Code Making Panel 14 (CMP14). These Articles are not "coordinated" at the NEC Technical Coordinating Committee (TCC) level. They have to go up to the Standards Counsel, which has a lower understanding of electrical area classification than the TCC.
 
rbalex said:
I would generally endorse this answer with respect to common electrical area classification principles; however, in this case, with respect to NEC, Article 511, my endorsement is irrelevant.

I've said before that, for installations within their scopes, Articles 511 through 516 are usually an acceptable basis for electrical hazardous location classifications. In the case of the OP the "temperature class" of the material doesn't matter. What does matter is whether the garage is "major" or "minor", the ventilation is adequate or not, and whether the material in question is lighter or heavier than air. Electrical area classification is then determined by Section 511.3.

Articles 511 through 516 are generally extracted from other NFPA documents and reflect the views of other Technical Committees (TC) rather than Code Making Panel 14 (CMP14). These Articles are not "coordinated" at the NEC Technical Coordinating Committee (TCC) level. They have to go up to the Standards Counsel, which has a lower understanding of electrical area classification than the TCC.
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Thanks for the questions. The site was built a number of years ago and even then the pit area required lighting for C1D2 rating. Their current engineer still specs it for a C1D2 hazard (gases and vapors, hazard under abnormal conditions). The vehicles they service are primarily diesel and natural gas powered buses and the term "service" may include other, major restorative tasks - we're not sure. We did have the same C1D2 lighting requirements for two other public transit service pits in NJ and NY as well as another in Canada. While we're unaware of their full process for the spec, perhaps public transportation facilities have some extra measures taken into account?

Mltech> Your service pit is perhaps for more general garage use so my apologies for not being able to provide an answer. Great conversation though, now we're really curious.
 
NemaTalk said:
Thanks for the questions. The site was built a number of years ago and even then the pit area required lighting for C1D2 rating. Their current engineer still specs it for a C1D2 hazard (gases and vapors, hazard under abnormal conditions). The vehicles they service are primarily diesel and natural gas powered buses and the term "service" may include other, major restorative tasks - we're not sure. We did have the same C1D2 lighting requirements for two other public transit service pits in NJ and NY as well as another in Canada. While we're unaware of their full process for the spec, perhaps public transportation facilities have some extra measures taken into account?

Mltech> Your service pit is perhaps for more general garage use so my apologies for not being able to provide an answer. Great conversation though, now we're really curious.
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If someone with proper authority is going to classify it as C1D2 then I guess you are stuck with that classification, otherwise in 2011 NEC if it is a "minor repair garage" the pit can be unclassified if adequate air exchange is provided.

511.3(D)(1)+(a)
 
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