rates, winter, and the economy

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Mule

Senior Member
Location
Oklahoma
Mule,

Forgive me if I'm a bit repetitive, I didn't have time to read all the posts.

The original post wasn't clear exactly what you heard or why you have a hunch that you should lower your prices, but I would offer the following:

If you have annual sales of $1,000,000 and are taking home $150,000 in profits, when you lower your prices 15% you will have zero profit.

In your situation, I would arrange a meeting with the client (the new management) and tell them that you have built a successful business by being responsive to customer needs. I would ask them what their plans are for the next 12 months and ask them what your company can do to facilitate them meeting those goals. I would start off by asking questions about ,quality, scheduling, responsiveness, and finally cash flow management...not price. This should get a dialogue going that may lead to you having a better understanding of what their needs are. The end result may be that they ask for lower prices, but I have had this exact conversation with a client where it turned out that what they really needed was different terms. I also had a client tell me in a similar conversation (this is one that still bothers me) that they were dissatisfied with our service and had been talking with other ECs. I had been telling my guys to do the minimum work necessary on service calls for this client because I perceived that they were a little anxious about prior bills. I was trying to keep the billing lower. It turns out that what they really wanted was for us to suggest longer-term solutions that would allow them to budget for repairs on their properties and make their cash flow predictable. I think we would have lost the client if we hadn't had the conversation. It can be really difficult to guess what a client needs. Sometimes we overlook the obvious which is to just ask them. If it turns out that the new managment has an electrician they have worked for or is someone's Brother in Law, you can't do much about that anyway.:grin:

I apreciate your comments, in fact they are very creative, and Im thinking I'll try your idea..... I dont make a million bucks nor $150 grand.......remember ! that 15% was the extreem side of my suggested so called sale, it would most probably be 10-12%..

While I just started contracting this year, and this is my FIRST winter, and the slow economy to boot, I may be over reacting and not having enough faith as others have mentioned.

This particular customer has been my "ace in the hole" since fall, as they contract me 2 days a week. Taking this "gig" was a tough choice, as I've had to turn away a number of jobs since I started. Not a bad thing, as I've been turning work to a buddy contractor that has been slow and needs it.

Anyway this particular customer now has brand new management and they are now wanting to start competitive bidding, hence screwing up my nice T/M gig :mad:.....Meanwhile my client contact is trying to talk them out of the bidding war, as there are so many variables, particularly job interuptions.

So I was thinking I would drop my price a bit to encourage them to keep the T/M, and to get me through the remainder of the winter, as the work is expected to end by then anyway.....So other than this customer, we've had alot of really good jobs, and I've been working 6 days a week to try to make it all work, but its been a nightmare, as I do everything and take out the trash. ..........:rolleyes:

I guess Im a bit unexperienced at the contracting, but believe me, Im learning fast haha :) Thanks to all of you, for your ideas and comments
 
Comparison shopping works when comparing the same product. Hopefully your product is your service and hopefully it's better than the other guys not the same. Rather than lower my rates I'm always trying to figure out how I can improve my services and provide better service to my customers.
That is where we are right now. Improve our service and not lower our rates.

...In your situation, I would arrange a meeting with the client (the new management) and tell them that you have built a successful business by being responsive to customer needs. I would ask them what their plans are for the next 12 months and ask them what your company can do to facilitate them meeting those goals. I would start off by asking questions about ,quality, scheduling, responsiveness, and finally cash flow management...not price. This should get a dialogue going that may lead to you having a better understanding of what their needs are. The end result may be that they ask for lower prices, but I have had this exact conversation with a client where it turned out that what they really needed was different terms. I also had a client tell me in a similar conversation (this is one that still bothers me) that they were dissatisfied with our service and had been talking with other ECs. I had been telling my guys to do the minimum work necessary on service calls for this client because I perceived that they were a little anxious about prior bills. I was trying to keep the billing lower. It turns out that what they really wanted was for us to suggest longer-term solutions that would allow them to budget for repairs on their properties and make their cash flow predictable. I think we would have lost the client if we hadn't had the conversation. It can be really difficult to guess what a client needs. Sometimes we overlook the obvious which is to just ask them. If it turns out that the new managment has an electrician they have worked for or is someone's Brother in Law, you can't do much about that anyway.:grin:
This is a very good idea. I think that finding out what the real need is, will provide you with a better idea of what the customer wants.
If you are really set on lowering your rates, then tell them that during this conversation. Personally, I would not.

Pittsburgh 24 -17
Did you already watch the game?
On our screen, it was Arizona 42... Pittsburgh 17... what version did YOU watch??? :wink: Besides any team that has this background has to win!

Enjoy, Gentlemen
 

tonyou812

Senior Member
Location
North New Jersey
Mule my friend, If I were you, I would keep my rates where they are.
Your overhead has not changed, The wage you pay your helper has not changed. Your personal bills have not changed.
Keep doing what you are doing until someone says something to you. If they have a problem with your price, they will tell you on this one. TRUST ME.

I totally agree. I dont want to be that guy.
 

Mule

Senior Member
Location
Oklahoma
That is very true....

At least if things had happened as I had been told, we would have ready and competitive.....
 

CopperTone

Senior Member
Location
MetroWest, MA
We lost 2 pretty good accounts last years solely because of mangement changes. They brought in their own electricians that they used before at their last job - nothing we could have done - I tried- I look back and remember - that is how we got the accounts in the first place. Sometimes that is the way it goes- doesn't matter how great your service is you just don't know the right people at the right time. Just follow the managers to their next job - keep in touch with them when they move on.
 

willco

Member
The man that I apprenticed under told me the first day on the job, "Pete in business if you aren?t going to make any money..., you best stay home!"

Pete
 

Mule

Senior Member
Location
Oklahoma
We lost 2 pretty good accounts last years solely because of mangement changes. They brought in their own electricians that they used before at their last job - nothing we could have done - I tried- I look back and remember - that is how we got the accounts in the first place. Sometimes that is the way it goes- doesn't matter how great your service is you just don't know the right people at the right time. Just follow the managers to their next job - keep in touch with them when they move on.

I think that is a very true statement..........relationships, and trust is more important, if price is in the ball park....
 

emahler

Senior Member
Why is it the absolute wrong thing to do? If I have to charge $100/hr to send a qualified j-man (who costs me $50/hr) and can complete a task in 2 hrs, and the customer requests/demands a 10% price discount. What is wrong with me sending a j-man that costs me $45/hr but takes 3 hrs to do the job? They got their 10% discount?
 

hardworkingstiff

Senior Member
Location
Wilmington, NC
Why is it the absolute wrong thing to do? If I have to charge $100/hr to send a qualified j-man (who costs me $50/hr) and can complete a task in 2 hrs, and the customer requests/demands a 10% price discount. What is wrong with me sending a j-man that costs me $45/hr but takes 3 hrs to do the job? They got their 10% discount?

This is not what you originally said. What I saw was
emahler said:
the answer is simple.....

reduce your hourly rate by 15%, then always take 30% longer to do the work...

Customers are not dumb. They would see right through that.

I am curious, do you invoice your customers based on the rate you pay your men or do you have a set rate and make more/less based on what you pay your men?
 

emahler

Senior Member
This is not what you originally said. What I saw was

Customers are not dumb. They would see right through that.

what's the difference between what I originally typed and my 2nd full explanation post?

in both cases, they are getting a discount, i am taking a pay cut, and the work is still getting completed....


I am curious, do you invoice your customers based on the rate you pay your men or do you have a set rate and make more/less based on what you pay your men?

what difference does it make? i think i see where you are going, but does it matter?
 

Mule

Senior Member
Location
Oklahoma
Finding a balance between two parties (in this case: the customer and contractor) is not a bad thing, as long as everything is "on the up and up"
as they say.

Honesty and integrity always wins in the end....
 

emahler

Senior Member
Finding a balance between two parties (in this case: the customer and contractor) is not a bad thing, as long as everything is "on the up and up"
as they say.

Honesty and integrity always wins in the end....

This is true, but once a customer asks for a lower hourly rate, with no regard to the overall picture, they have just proved they lack honesty and integrity.
 

hardworkingstiff

Senior Member
Location
Wilmington, NC
what's the difference between what I originally typed and my 2nd full explanation post?

The difference in my perception is the 1st post was a blanket statement of lower your hourly rate then purposely slow the completion time to generate more revenue. The 2nd statement indicated you would invoice a higher rate for men you pay more to and a lesser rate for men you pay less to, hence the skill-set difference.

Your general attitude seems to be one of being narcissistic where Mule's attitude seems to be one of trying to work with the customer and understand the customer's needs as well.

I agree that this is a slippery slope and there is danger in cutting your price, but to just dismiss this without serious consideration is narrow minded.

All of this of course is just my opinion and worth what you pay for it. :smile:
 

Mule

Senior Member
Location
Oklahoma
This is true, but once a customer asks for a lower hourly rate, with no regard to the overall picture, they have just proved they lack honesty and integrity.

Not sure how you equate that?

possibly, he honestly thinks its too high.....which would IMO show a presence of integrity...instead of the lack of it...
 

hardworkingstiff

Senior Member
Location
Wilmington, NC
This is true, but once a customer asks for a lower hourly rate, with no regard to the overall picture, they have just proved they lack honesty and integrity.

How can you say that? Have you ever asked a car dealer if he can lower his price? Have you ever asked a supply house if they can do better?

Come on emahler, you seem to be angry with people looking for their best deals. There is nothing wrong with someone trying to get there best deal. It's up to you to agree or disagree.

Mule, keep lines of communication open. Talk to the customer openly and honestly. Like someone else mentioned, LISTEN! The customer will tell what is bothering them if you listen.

Remember it's easier to keep a customer than it is to get a new customer. The cable company will sell road-runner for $30/month to new customers but charges me $45/month and I've been with them for 10-years. I'm thinking about trying out the phone companys' DSL.
 
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