readily accessible

[bob52]

We are having a healthy debate at my office with regards to what is a readily accessible space is .The scenario is receptacle under the kitchen sink for a dishwasher , I say the GFCI protection must come from somewhere other than a GFCI rec. under the sink because that would not be a readily accessible space. I am interested to hear some other opinions. Thank you

 

[GoldDigger]

This discussion has been many times around the barn in other threads.
Best overall advice is that it is an AHJ judgement call and different jurisdictions may differ.
If all you have to do is open the door, I say readily accessible.
If the cabinet is full of stuff and the GFCI is at the back, I would say not readily accessible.
JMO.

 

[iwire]

I agree with GoldDigger.

 

[dkidd]

This discussion has been many times around the barn in other threads.
Best overall advice is that it is an AHJ judgement call and different jurisdictions may differ.
If all you have to do is open the door, I say readily accessible.
If the cabinet is full of stuff and the GFCI is at the back, I would say not readily accessible.
JMO.

Schrödinger's Receptacle. Even knowing it's in there, it must be observed to determine the condition of accessibility.

 

[GoldDigger]

Schrödinger's Receptacle. Even knowing it's in there, it must be observed to determine the condition of accessibility.

:thumbsup:
And the EC may tell the inspector that it is readily accessible right now, during the inspection, and what the homeowner may do later is just a "what if" game and should not count.

 

[augie47]

Step up and show my ignorance. We have not been requiring those receptacles (under sink serving dishwasher) to be GFCI. Have I overlooked ans obvious ?

 

[ActionDave]

Step up and show my ignorance. We have not been requiring those receptacles (under sink serving dishwasher) to be GFCI. Have I overlooked ans obvious ?

'14 code required GFCI's for dishwashers. General Electric had too many of their cheap appliances catch fire.

 

[augie47]

'14 code required GFCI's for dishwashers. General Electric had too many of their cheap appliances catch fire.

If TN jumps from '08 to '14 I've going to learn a lot
I don't doubt what you say but I can't find it. You have a reference ?

 

[dkidd]

210.8(D)

 

[augie47]

embarrassing .... thats why there is a scroll button teaching old farts to use it is a different story
(one would think it would appear in "A" dwelling units which is where "one" looked ,,and Art 422)

thanks

 

[charlie b]

A panel that is inside a locked electrical room to which only the electrician (or facilities manager) has the key can still be called readily accessible. Having to bend over (or kneel down), open a cabinet door (that is not lockable), and remove the garbage can from the space does not, in my opinion, render the dishwasher's receptacle no longer readily accessible.

 

[dkidd]

"to climb over or remove
obstacles,"

A garbage can would be an obstacle.

 

[charlie b]

A garbage can would be an obstacle.

And a locked electrical room door would not?

 

[GoldDigger]

And a locked electrical room door would not?

There is an explicit provision that allows keys to be necessary, but not other "tools".
And a fixed ladder, but not a portable ladder.

 

[dkidd]

And a locked electrical room door would not?

You don't have to remove the door.

 

[infinity]

Open the cabinet door for the receptacle or open the panel door for the GFCI breaker, no difference.

 

[mwm1752]

Open the cabinet door for the receptacle or open the panel door for the GFCI breaker, no difference.

Good thing 2017 took care of the GFI for disposals so we won't worry about them -- but IMO cabinets are designed for storage which makes gfi & afci not readily accessible due o removal of objects & physically getting to the back of the cabinet. -- but when old wiring cannot accept breakers & a device is the only way for protection I would pick the protection over the accessibility issue.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

embarrassing .... thats why there is a scroll button teaching old farts to use it is a different story
(one would think it would appear in "A" dwelling units which is where "one" looked ,,and Art 422)

thanks

It was not put in (A) because that only applies to receptacles. They wanted the dishwasher protected, even if it was hardwired, so putting it in (A) would not work. (D) specifies GFCI protection for the "outlet" that serves the dishwasher.

 

[FionaZuppa]

There is an explicit provision that allows keys to be necessary, but not other "tools".
And a fixed ladder, but not a portable ladder.

a fixed ladder? then please explain what they mean by "and so forth." at the end of the 2014 art 100 def.
i believe the def is to mean, walk to the device, open a door if there is one, access the device. is climbing a fixed ladder to reach a disco 15ft high "easily/readily accessible"? no. but it is "accessible".

 

[charlie b]

i believe the def is to mean, walk to the device, open a door if there is one, access the device. is climbing a fixed ladder to reach a disco 15ft high "easily/readily accessible"? no. but it is "accessible".

I must beg to disagree. Last week I climbed two fixed ladders, each at least 15 feet high, in order to reach two separate mezzanine levels related to a tenant improvement project. At each mezzanine level there were 480V panels, transformers, and 120V panels. Off hand, I do not know whether anything up there was required to be "readily accessible." But I would say that they were, in fact, "readily accessible."