Recept at the Washing Machine

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ActionDave said:
Let's say I run two twenty amp circuits to the laundry room. Circuit one serves recepts. in the laundry room only, except the washer.

If circuit two serves the washer and the alarm on a sewer lift have I violated 210.11 or any other relevant code rule.

I think not, but I want to be sure.

Part of the reason for wanting this arrangement is there is a sink in the laundry room. The homeowner prefers to have the required GFCI protection be a breaker rather than recept.
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Just wondering while I was reading section, you said the recepticle is "required gfci" Is it within 6 feet of "THE" sink? otherwise I didn't even read a gfci requirement
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
The NEC only requires circuits installed in the laundry area that are intended to service laundry equipment to be bound by 210.11(C)(2).
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210.11 Branch Circuits Required.

(C) Dwelling Units.

(2) Laundry Branch Circuits. In addition to the number
of branch circuits required by other parts of this section, at
least one additional 20-ampere branch circuit shall be provided
to supply the laundry receptacle outlet(s) required by
210.52(F). This circuit shall have no other outlets.
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I see nothing in this or 210.52(F) that says this circuit must supply laundry equipment. As a matter of fact it appears to me they went out of their way not to say specifically what it is to supply other than a 'laundry area'.

210.52(F) Laundry Areas. In dwelling units, at least one receptacle
outlet shall be installed for the laundry.

Exception No. 1: In a dwelling unit that is an apartment
or living area in a multifamily building where laundry facilities
are provided on the premises and are available to
all building occupants, a laundry receptacle shall not be
required.

Exception No. 2: In other than one-family dwellings where
laundry facilities are not to be installed or permitted, a
laundry receptacle shall not be required.
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If it did say that the 210.11(C)(2) circuit has to supply the washer a stackable washer and dryer that has only the 30 amp 240 cord on it would be a violation.
 
iwire said:
I see nothing in this or 210.52(F) that says this circuit must supply laundry equipment. As a matter of fact it appears to me they went out of their way not to say specifically what it is to supply other than a 'laundry area'.



If it did say that the 210.11(C)(2) circuit has to supply the washer a stackable washer and dryer that has only the 30 amp 240 cord on it would be a violation.
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Not totally sure what you mean. I may be misreading your post. If a stackable washer/dryer needs a 30 amp, you can run it, but you still need a 20 amp 120 v circuit for the requirement.
 
jumper said:
If a stackable washer/dryer needs a 30 amp, you can run it, but you still need a 20 amp 120 v circuit for the requirement.
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Yes, I agree 100%

But Mike's position and maybe Don's position seems to be that the required circuit must supply the laundry equipment.
 
jumper said:
I believe that that was the intention, but it is not written with those exact words.
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I don't even think it was the intention that the circuit supply a washer back when it was written. My guess is it was to supply an iron which can be a high power appliance and was more common in homes long before electric washers.
 
iwire said:
I don't even think it was the intention that the circuit supply a washer back when it was written. My guess is it was to supply an iron which can be a high power appliance and was more common in homes long before electric washers.
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Could be, sounds reasonable. I have no evidence to refute your opinion/guess, so I have no argument with it.
 
In a hospital the operating table would be a critical care area. What makes this ?area? a critical care area? Is the operating room the only critical care area one can find?

What is a laundry area? Is a clothes closet a laundry area? Is the area where the washing machine, dryer, and ironing board are located a laundry area? What makes an area in a dwelling unit a laundry area?

Is the laundry area limited to one place in a dwelling unit? Is it possible to have the clothes washer in one room, the clothes dryer in another room and a built in ironing board in a third room? How many laundry areas would this dwelling unit now have? How many circuits required by 210.11(C)(2) and receptacles required by 210.52(F) would this dwelling unit now require?

Please help me to better understand this laundry area and the requirements of 210.11(C)(2) and 210.52(F).
As outlined above with three different pieces of laundry equipment located in three different locations of a dwelling unit how many circuits and receptacles would be required?
I do understand that in the two code sections it states ?at least one? but does that mean that only one is required in the scenario outlined above with laundry equipment located in three different areas of a dwelling unit.

It seems to be the consensus of some that a 120 volt circuit supplying a receptacle could be install inches below the service panel and labeled laundry and then have the washer, dryer, and ironing board installed in other locations of the house on a general purpose circuit (meaning a gas dryer here) and be code compliant. Do I understand this correctly?

I promise to not debate but I am looking for a consensus on this matter.
 
The title of paragraph 210.52(F) includes the word "area," and it has that word in its plural form. That does confuse things a bit, I must admit. But the actual requirement is that there be one circuit in the dwelling unit. It does not say that if the dwelling unit is designed to have more than one "laundry area," then you need one circuit for each such area.
 
jwelectric said:
In a hospital the operating table would be a critical care area. What makes this ?area? a critical care area? Is the operating room the only critical care area one can find?

What is a laundry area? Is a clothes closet a laundry area? Is the area where the washing machine, dryer, and ironing board are located a laundry area? What makes an area in a dwelling unit a laundry area?

Is the laundry area limited to one place in a dwelling unit? Is it possible to have the clothes washer in one room, the clothes dryer in another room and a built in ironing board in a third room? How many laundry areas would this dwelling unit now have? How many circuits required by 210.11(C)(2) and receptacles required by 210.52(F) would this dwelling unit now require?

Please help me to better understand this laundry area and the requirements of 210.11(C)(2) and 210.52(F).
As outlined above with three different pieces of laundry equipment located in three different locations of a dwelling unit how many circuits and receptacles would be required?
I do understand that in the two code sections it states ?at least one? but does that mean that only one is required in the scenario outlined above with laundry equipment located in three different areas of a dwelling unit.

It seems to be the consensus of some that a 120 volt circuit supplying a receptacle could be install inches below the service panel and labeled laundry and then have the washer, dryer, and ironing board installed in other locations of the house on a general purpose circuit (meaning a gas dryer here) and be code compliant. Do I understand this correctly?

I promise to not debate but I am looking for a consensus on this matter.
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charlie b said:
The title of paragraph 210.52(F) includes the word "area," and it has that word in its plural form. That does confuse things a bit, I must admit. But the actual requirement is that there be one circuit in the dwelling unit. It does not say that if the dwelling unit is designed to have more than one "laundry area," then you need one circuit for each such area.
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I said back in post 50 that part of the problem here is the NEC has no definition for laundry equipment or laundry outlet or something to define specifically what 210.52(F) outlets are to serve. They do define the areas covered by 210.52(B) for SABC's as well as what is a bathroom and what outlets must be supplied by 210.52(D).

210.52(F) just says "at least one receptacle outlet shall be installed for the laundry". No where in NEC does it define what the laundry is or where it should be. It could be a washboard and galvanized tub like it was long time ago, but you are still required to put in a 20 amp 120 volt branch circuit and at least one receptacle outlet on this circuit to supply the laundry.
 
jumper said:
From the 1956 "At least one receptacle outlet shall be installed for the connection of laundry appliances" 2112.12.
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I think your code section is wrong I have 2124(b) in the 1957 edition.

" At least one receptacle of the grounding type shall be installed for the connection of laundry appliances"

this same language appears in the 1947 book also.
 
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